FullThrottle64

I most certainly DID answer your question:

rglbegl

You side-stepped the question. (Much like a politician)
So when off throttle, the PDK is not in gear at all? ZERO engine braking? ZERO transmission effect on the wheels? It is exactly the same as clutching an MT?
Or are you saying you still have to give it throttle to get to a point where you are not accelerating or allowing compression to slow you down? (Which would make it very different from a manual)

chuck911

Yes you did indeed. But the guy you're answering, if you recall a couple posts back, said he loves playing Devil's Advocate (terrific Pacino movie by the way) and watching people get their panties in a twist. Or bunch. Anyway, you get the idea. A real rabble-rouser. Evidently so much so that he's now asking us to imagine he likes to coast through corners in neutral, as if he would rather shift completely in and out of gear rather than simply shift his ankle angle. In fairness we probably ought to acknowledge the guy really could be so addled. I mean I have seen some pretty astounding things in my years instructing. So while we can be pretty sure he's full of it, there's always the odd chance that he's, well, running on empty.

Like, for example, when he says, "So when off throttle, the PDK is not in gear at all? ZERO engine braking? ZERO transmission effect on the wheels? It is exactly the same as clutching an MT?" Maybe he honestly does not know that PDK in normal mode does indeed shift automatically into neutral in this exact situation.

Well, he knows it now!

rglbegl

Okay, I am learning.
For those in here who talk about the PDK being faster, they need to use the 'normal' mode when trying to get the most out of their car. So on the track, 'normal' mode is the fastest. Got it

FullThrottle64

Why would you clutch an MT at any time other than shifting or emergency stop? There is no good reason to do so, it accelerates clutch wear, and removes all control of balance and stability.

I answered your question properly. If you think it was a serious question, then you really need to go to a performance driving school....seriously.

And, yes I am saying that the proper way to adjust the vehicle balance front-to-rear is with the throttle. Only a very green beginner who has no understanding of vehicle dynamics would use the clutch to do so - and any competent instructor would demand that he/she stop doing it in the very first session.

Bottom line: You may not like my answer, but your question was inane to begin with. I would ask all of the other experienced race drivers/instructors here if they think your suggested approach has merit.....let's see how that turns out.

Sask997

These debates go on for ever. I agree we are often confusing efficiency and performance with pleasure.

There is no doubt that a PDK car is faster around a track and on the drag strip.

The pleasure of using a MT correctly is a different issue. It is like driving a vintage car. These cars are not the best performers but are a lot of fun for some.

Most buy a sport car for fun. So get the transmission that gives you more pleasure to use.

In modern Porsches we can have all the amenities that we want as well as the old fashioned tools that we still like to use. How can you complain about that.

FullThrottle64

No. That's not what was said, and I'm pretty sure you know it. Fastest is to minimize the time that the clutch is disengaged, as is the case in Sport Plus mode. Any driver who knows what he/she is doing NEVER wants the clutch disengaged at any time other than an active shift or when stopped.

You are either being extremely disingenuous, intentionally trying to sound like an idiot, or really need to go to a track and learn how to drive. Care to tell us which it is?

chuckbdc

Grand slam.

chuck911

Not so fast!

In normal mode PDK shifts earlier, at lower RPM, shifts are slower, and when you lift off throttle it goes to neutral until you apply either throttle or brake. In other words it does pretty much what a MT driver would do under everyday circumstances when taking it easy, trying to save gas, etc.

In Sport mode PDK shifts later at higher RPM, shifts are faster, and it stays in gear providing compression braking, even downshifting as needed for optimal compression braking. In other words what the MT driver would do when driving faster.

You really do have a lot to learn! It was hard to be sure at first but you really do. Like when you said above, "Or are you saying you still have to give it throttle to get to a point where you are not accelerating or allowing compression to slow you down? (Which would make it very different from a manual)"

No, that would not be very different from a manual, it is exactly the same as a manual. Both PDK and manual use a gearbox. Both behave exactly the same while in gear. Its a tempest in a tea pot, and the devils in the details.

rglbegl

I was asking about neutral, not in gear.
It was explained to me that throttle position is essential to maintain a neutral feel, and that would be like a manual if it was still in gear. But again, I was asking about a clutched or true neutral position.

FullThrottle64

Under what circumstances does this matter? In what driving condition would you ever want to hold the clutch in the disengaged state longer than the absolute minimum amount of time to select the appropriate gear?

MarcusG

I love reading this thread.

You really know what the saving grace here is?

Most Rennlister's or Porsche owners are educated so the grammar within the posts are written and punctuated properly. Almost entirely.

Have you ever tried to read a 10 page + thread on a Corvette or Mustang forum let alone an Import rice forum? It's headache inducing.

Keep going everyone!

chuck911

I think I see your problem and what is frustrating Fullthrottle. Or maybe not! We will see...

The neutral feel you're talking about with regard to throttle has to do with controlling weight balance. With throttle, acceleration shifts weight balance to the rear. Off throttle, deceleration shifts weight balance to the front. Right dead in between is where I think you're confused. You seem to think that neutral balance means literally neutral, as in coasting. But that's not right. Coasting in neutral the car is slowing, the balance is off to the front. True neutral balance can only be attained by using just enough throttle to offset natural drag. PDK or MT does not matter at all.

Understanding car control from the point of view of controlling weight transfer is a bit of a leap at first, but ultimately it is the only real way of understanding driving at all. Then for example when Fullthrottle says you want to be in gear other than for the absolute minimum needed to change gears, you will understand and agree. Keep at it you can get there.

rglbegl

See what i mean, this is what is known as having your panties in a bunch. This poor guy is genuinely upset at someone he does not know and is going as far as name calling over an internet thread. He answers questions with questions and avoids trying to answer what was asked.
I love watching people melt down.


I like Chuck, he is actually answering in an easy to understand way and explaining the situation.

bccars

Anyway to answer your question. We PDK drivers have several options. Staying in Normal mode gives us "coasting/sailing"-mode, which decouples everything while off throttle, like you would have with a MT with clutch disengaged.
In Sport mode we get the usual off throttle behavior like you would have with a MT with clutch engaged.

But I agree with the other posters, why on earth would you want to coast a sportscar (other than to save fuel maybe) ?