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Been following this thread for a while with much amusement. Thought I’d share a copy of a printout that one of the local luxury car dealers uses to determine pricing. This was from back in September and you can see how comparable vehicles were priced. This was for a 991.2 C2S with 5400 miles. The price shown is not what was paid but what was being asked.
Yes I agree! Trust me, your dealer is not using KBB. They might use that to show justify retail price but they are using Manheim MMR. It is where all wholesale prices are set - through the auctions.
Understood. One recent trend that I believe is, or will influence the market, especially for more special, rare/lower production, collectors, and low-mileage cars are auction sites like Bring-A-Trailer and Cars-And-Bids. They are becoming very popular. I saw a beautiful 2018 911 GT 2 RS Weisach (991.2) recently sell for MSRP on BAT. It did only have 600 miles on it! Love that car.
Last edited by PAPorscheGuy; 01-27-2021 at 12:21 PM.
I'll chime in with some anecdotal / personal reference having recently (well three months ago) gone through this process. At the beginning of 2020 I decided I was ready to move on from my 997.2 S in search of my next 911. I'd decided that moving to a 991.1 S wouldn't have been an appreciable delta in performance and I also wanted the latest updates in terms of interior tech (CarPlay etc) so it was going to be a 991.2 I was looking for. Similar to my prior 911, this one would also be a "fun car" and not a daily so a manual transmission was really a non-negotiable for me.
Fast forward to March and I sold my 997 to a local high end indy dealer - I may have lost out on a couple grand but got strong money for the car and didn't have the time or patience to deal with the joys of selling a car private party (been there, done that). That was the easy part. Literally one week later COVID hits at a national level and things just got crazy. It seemed that in a matter of about three weeks there was literally zero inventory on .2 cars and my manual requirement equated to a needle in a haystack.
Each morning, and again at night, I would peruse the usual resources - Cargurus, AutoTrader, Porsche's pre-owned site, etc. I feel like I knew every car in the country. I knew which one was tagged as manual but was really a PDK, I knew which one had a bad Carfax, I knew which one was manual but didn't have sport chrono / sport exhaust or some other option I was really looking for. I also went through the same mental conflict I've been seeing here that these prices are certainly not justified and the "there's no way they're actually selling for that". Oddly enough however, I missed out on two cars that literally sold in 24 hours from listing as I was running through the usual questions with the dealer around service history, condition, etc. My guess is they didn't drop the listing price 5-10% if they were gone that quickly.
I also posted a WTB ad in the classifieds in Mid-March of last year and after 7 months and over 600 views only had two people reach out. Neither had a car that met my criteria in terms of options (one wasn't even an S). Just as I was about to give up the search until this Spring, low and behold my unicorn gets listed here on the classifieds - 2018 S manual, RAS, SPASM, Sports Package, Sport design package, Sport Seats, NO SUNROOF, etc etc 6k miles. I immediately jumped on it and the seller couldn't have been more of a gentleman to work with. We both had a chuckle as he was going in the opposite direction that I was in that he had just purchased a 997.2 S manual - can't believe we didn't find each other 7 months earlier - would have been serendipitous to say the least.
So what did I learn? To begin with, it may be justified or not, but the market is what it is. I wasted a lot of cycles trying to explain away why prices weren't lower but realized, for what I was looking for, that was the market. I was either in or out - it's just business. I also learned that there's always another car despite the frustration of waiting, Finally, if you can find a car from a fellow enthusiast you really can't go wrong. Ya, the car I bought wasn't CPO'd, but it still has factory warranty and the PPI done by the Porsche dealer (including over rev report ) came through spotless.
I'll chime in with some anecdotal / personal reference having recently (well three months ago) gone through this process. At the beginning of 2020 I decided I was ready to move on from my 997.2 S in search of my next 911. I'd decided that moving to a 991.1 S wouldn't have been an appreciable delta in performance and I also wanted the latest updates in terms of interior tech (CarPlay etc) so it was going to be a 991.2 I was looking for. Similar to my prior 911, this one would also be a "fun car" and not a daily so a manual transmission was really a non-negotiable for me.
Fast forward to March and I sold my 997 to a local high end indy dealer - I may have lost out on a couple grand but got strong money for the car and didn't have the time or patience to deal with the joys of selling a car private party (been there, done that). That was the easy part. Literally one week later COVID hits at a national level and things just got crazy. It seemed that in a matter of about three weeks there was literally zero inventory on .2 cars and my manual requirement equated to a needle in a haystack.
Each morning, and again at night, I would peruse the usual resources - Cargurus, AutoTrader, Porsche's pre-owned site, etc. I feel like I knew every car in the country. I knew which one was tagged as manual but was really a PDK, I knew which one had a bad Carfax, I knew which one was manual but didn't have sport chrono / sport exhaust or some other option I was really looking for. I also went through the same mental conflict I've been seeing here that these prices are certainly not justified and the "there's no way they're actually selling for that". Oddly enough however, I missed out on two cars that literally sold in 24 hours from listing as I was running through the usual questions with the dealer around service history, condition, etc. My guess is they didn't drop the listing price 5-10% if they were gone that quickly.
I also posted a WTB ad in the classifieds in Mid-March of last year and after 7 months and over 600 views only had two people reach out. Neither had a car that met my criteria in terms of options (one wasn't even an S). Just as I was about to give up the search until this Spring, low and behold my unicorn gets listed here on the classifieds - 2018 S manual, RAS, SPASM, Sports Package, Sport design package, Sport Seats, NO SUNROOF, etc etc 6k miles. I immediately jumped on it and the seller couldn't have been more of a gentleman to work with. We both had a chuckle as he was going in the opposite direction that I was in that he had just purchased a 997.2 S manual - can't believe we didn't find each other 7 months earlier - would have been serendipitous to say the least.
So what did I learn? To begin with, it may be justified or not, but the market is what it is. I wasted a lot of cycles trying to explain away why prices weren't lower but realized, for what I was looking for, that was the market. I was either in or out - it's just business. I also learned that there's always another car despite the frustration of waiting, Finally, if you can find a car from a fellow enthusiast you really can't go wrong. Ya, the car I bought wasn't CPO'd, but it still has factory warranty and the PPI done by the Porsche dealer (including over rev report ) came through spotless.
Good luck everyone - these are phenomenal cars.
my dealer has a new heritage edition that someone canceled if anyone is interested,leave me a pm and I will give you the info
I'll chime in with some anecdotal / personal reference having recently (well three months ago) gone through this process. At the beginning of 2020 I decided I was ready to move on from my 997.2 S in search of my next 911. I'd decided that moving to a 991.1 S wouldn't have been an appreciable delta in performance and I also wanted the latest updates in terms of interior tech (CarPlay etc) so it was going to be a 991.2 I was looking for. Similar to my prior 911, this one would also be a "fun car" and not a daily so a manual transmission was really a non-negotiable for me.
Fast forward to March and I sold my 997 to a local high end indy dealer - I may have lost out on a couple grand but got strong money for the car and didn't have the time or patience to deal with the joys of selling a car private party (been there, done that). That was the easy part. Literally one week later COVID hits at a national level and things just got crazy. It seemed that in a matter of about three weeks there was literally zero inventory on .2 cars and my manual requirement equated to a needle in a haystack.
Each morning, and again at night, I would peruse the usual resources - Cargurus, AutoTrader, Porsche's pre-owned site, etc. I feel like I knew every car in the country. I knew which one was tagged as manual but was really a PDK, I knew which one had a bad Carfax, I knew which one was manual but didn't have sport chrono / sport exhaust or some other option I was really looking for. I also went through the same mental conflict I've been seeing here that these prices are certainly not justified and the "there's no way they're actually selling for that". Oddly enough however, I missed out on two cars that literally sold in 24 hours from listing as I was running through the usual questions with the dealer around service history, condition, etc. My guess is they didn't drop the listing price 5-10% if they were gone that quickly.
I also posted a WTB ad in the classifieds in Mid-March of last year and after 7 months and over 600 views only had two people reach out. Neither had a car that met my criteria in terms of options (one wasn't even an S). Just as I was about to give up the search until this Spring, low and behold my unicorn gets listed here on the classifieds - 2018 S manual, RAS, SPASM, Sports Package, Sport design package, Sport Seats, NO SUNROOF, etc etc 6k miles. I immediately jumped on it and the seller couldn't have been more of a gentleman to work with. We both had a chuckle as he was going in the opposite direction that I was in that he had just purchased a 997.2 S manual - can't believe we didn't find each other 7 months earlier - would have been serendipitous to say the least.
So what did I learn? To begin with, it may be justified or not, but the market is what it is. I wasted a lot of cycles trying to explain away why prices weren't lower but realized, for what I was looking for, that was the market. I was either in or out - it's just business. I also learned that there's always another car despite the frustration of waiting, Finally, if you can find a car from a fellow enthusiast you really can't go wrong. Ya, the car I bought wasn't CPO'd, but it still has factory warranty and the PPI done by the Porsche dealer (including over rev report ) came through spotless.
Good luck everyone - these are phenomenal cars.
I enjoyed reading this as it really rang true to my own personal recent purchase experience. Everything beginning with the time period and the features I was looking for, particularly the manual transmission. I finally found my 'unicorn' car in September. But my experience was nearly the exact same as your down to knowing every car available across the nation.
I enjoyed reading this as it really rang true to my own personal recent purchase experience. Everything beginning with the time period and the features I was looking for, particularly the manual transmission. I finally found my 'unicorn' car in September. But my experience was nearly the exact same as your down to knowing every car available across the nation.
Maybe you and I can spearhead a therapy group for potential 991 owners. There were days I felt like it was a second job. 😉
So what did I learn? To begin with, it may be justified or not, but the market is what it is. I wasted a lot of cycles trying to explain away why prices weren't lower but realized, for what I was looking for, that was the market. I was either in or out - it's just business. I also learned that there's always another car despite the frustration of waiting, Finally, if you can find a car from a fellow enthusiast you really can't go wrong. Ya, the car I bought wasn't CPO'd, but it still has factory warranty and the PPI done by the Porsche dealer (including over rev report ) came through spotless.
Good luck everyone - these are phenomenal cars.
Great story and takeaway message CAA. I had a very similar experience looking for a 991.2 C2S MT. I almost settled for a PDK, but finally found the perfect spec for me - including low miles, but different than yours. Sub-markets like C2S MT - especially with additional "required" specs layered on are incredibly small. It does feel like a unicorn.
I enjoyed reading this as it really rang true to my own personal recent purchase experience. Everything beginning with the time period and the features I was looking for, particularly the manual transmission. I finally found my 'unicorn' car in September. But my experience was nearly the exact same as your down to knowing every car available across the nation.
Same here. 991.2 C2S MT? Bought mine in December. I'm in PA. Nationwide search landing in Maine.
Boy am I glad I picked up a local Carrera T from my dealer a couple months ago. I had been looking at 991.1 GTS's, 996/7 GT3's and 997.2 GTS's, but got a wild hair about the Carrera T and let my local Porsche dealer know and a few hours later they sent the build sheet on one that an employee was thinking of selling. It was the spec I wanted exactly except it had full leather and I didn't "want" that but sure am glad it has it. Anyway we struck a deal at $95k with new rear tires and a 3 year service. Not the best deal in the world but for once I didn't have to ship a car in!
I guess my point is I'm just glad I'm not looking anymore for the cars I was looking at before! There is nothing out there!
I found my P-car using this, as the dealer hadn't yet put it on Autotrader. 2018 991.2 S (19k miles) with sport package + RAS, CPO, one owner, Agate with RS Spyder wheels. I jumped on it asap, paid $103k. Seemed like a fair price given CPO and one owner.
I found my P-car using this, as the dealer hadn't yet put it on Autotrader. 2018 991.2 S (19k miles) with sport package + RAS, CPO, one owner, Agate with RS Spyder wheels. I jumped on it asap, paid $103k. Seemed like a fair price given CPO and one owner.
Great tip! I just found my CPO GTS the same way. The dealership had not put it on their website but it was up without pics on the Porsche site.
Nowadays BAT is the go to place for anything that's really good(rare spec or low mile garage queens etc.). A 1200 miles .1rs fetched 187k today which is almost .2 money for the buyer.
01-27-2021, 12:16 PM
