Porsche Cracking Down on Flippers?
06-04-2017, 12:12 AM
#301
as a compliment, if somewhat oblique!
If it would have been said by Rennlister
Benedict14, my standing as a 'gentleman'
would have felt secure. But you are not
infallible, are you? No, I need the pope
to confirm if I am indeed a gentleman!
*
habits. But don't worry, you finished your
residency & are now a successful dentist!
Let's be grateful for the transition!
*
Keep reading it over & over...you'll eventually
get it.
*
rabid 'anti-flipper' sentiment I have heard on this
thread. But if you need to 'hate' someone in this
melodrama, I would suggest you direct your anger
at Porsche & PCNA. They misjudged what they
were doing when they limited the number of 911R
they decided to build. They could have done 1245
or more examples (e.g. 991 plus 250 potential VIP
takers in US) & neutralized some of the blowback.
There was nothing historic or significant about
building just 991 units of this model wordwide!
want to take to the Supreme Court to litigate for
your cause. Pick a more worthy one!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
06-04-2017, 12:33 AM
#302
Three Wheelin'
This is why Eduardo is the best....."flipper-gate"....awesome! I'm setting up a dinner with Eduardo (subjectively my favorite RL member) into being director and producer of a movie on Ferdinand Piech! It will revive Hollywood!
06-04-2017, 12:39 AM
#303
Whether buying them is the hobby or driving them is, either way the end result is a hobby. Very few (maybe 5 in the US for track experiences?) are purchased for commercial applications.
I haven't run a street car on the track for years, because I use a full race car with tech support. When my ABS/brake system failed on Thursday and I was sliding towards the barrier with full lock it reminded me how it was the right decision to have a full cage...
I haven't run a street car on the track for years, because I use a full race car with tech support. When my ABS/brake system failed on Thursday and I was sliding towards the barrier with full lock it reminded me how it was the right decision to have a full cage...
06-04-2017, 12:49 AM
#304
Did you hit the barrier? Or did you just wake up
from your dream?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
06-04-2017, 01:22 AM
#305
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Z356
Or it could have simply been your grooming
habits.
habits.
But don't worry, you finished your
residency & are now a successful dentist!
Let's be grateful for the transition!
residency & are now a successful dentist!
Let's be grateful for the transition!
*Keep reading it over & over...you'll eventually
get it.
get it.
I am not 'pro-flipper'. I simply don't gree with the
rabid 'anti-flipper' sentiment I have heard on this
thread. But if you need to 'hate' someone in this
melodrama, I would suggest you direct your anger
at Porsche & PCNA. They misjudged what they
were doing when they limited the number of 911R
they decided to build. They could have done 1245
or more examples (e.g. 991 plus 250 potential VIP
takers in US) & neutralized some of the blowback.
There was nothing historic or significant about
building just 991 units of this model wordwide!
Yes, I can. But 'flipper-gate' is not the case you
want to take to the Supreme Court to litigate for
your cause. Pick a more worthy one!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
rabid 'anti-flipper' sentiment I have heard on this
thread. But if you need to 'hate' someone in this
melodrama, I would suggest you direct your anger
at Porsche & PCNA. They misjudged what they
were doing when they limited the number of 911R
they decided to build. They could have done 1245
or more examples (e.g. 991 plus 250 potential VIP
takers in US) & neutralized some of the blowback.
There was nothing historic or significant about
building just 991 units of this model wordwide!
Yes, I can. But 'flipper-gate' is not the case youwant to take to the Supreme Court to litigate for
your cause. Pick a more worthy one!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
The flipper and ADM problem exists outside of VIP program, outside of Porsche, with cars being made in higher volume. Camaro Z/28s, BRZs, and mustangs are sold at a discount now, but flippers and greedy dealers tried to gouge people early on because they restricted the supply to the few people who really wanted the car.
06-04-2017, 01:46 AM
#306
I know I'm not high class enough for you. I'm fine with that. I'm not part of your social circle for a reason and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. Bragging about the value of your car over wine and never driving the thing doesn't interest me in the least.
Not that I wouldn't be happy to be one, but I'm not a dentist.
Once is enough. Your words aren't gospel either.
I'm not sure why you're making this a 991R thing. That is a numbered car, and not the same production volume as GT cars. I don't care about the 911R. This is a problem in general with GT cars, which are what interest me and most people here. PCNA has taken care of me after I talked to them about my concerns. Porsche makes enough GT cars. The supply is being artificially limited by unscrupulous dealers and flippers, who are the real problem.
The flipper and ADM problem exists outside of VIP program, outside of Porsche, with cars being made in higher volume. Camaro Z/28s, BRZs, and mustangs are sold at a discount now, but flippers and greedy dealers tried to gouge people early on because they restricted the supply to the few people who really wanted the car.
Not that I wouldn't be happy to be one, but I'm not a dentist.
Once is enough. Your words aren't gospel either.
I'm not sure why you're making this a 991R thing. That is a numbered car, and not the same production volume as GT cars. I don't care about the 911R. This is a problem in general with GT cars, which are what interest me and most people here. PCNA has taken care of me after I talked to them about my concerns. Porsche makes enough GT cars. The supply is being artificially limited by unscrupulous dealers and flippers, who are the real problem.
The flipper and ADM problem exists outside of VIP program, outside of Porsche, with cars being made in higher volume. Camaro Z/28s, BRZs, and mustangs are sold at a discount now, but flippers and greedy dealers tried to gouge people early on because they restricted the supply to the few people who really wanted the car.
I've put deposits down 2 years ago, I'm trying to establish a relationship with a few good guy dealers, and I understand how the system works now so let's see if I end up with any new GT cars at MSRP that I want to buy....
06-04-2017, 01:53 AM
#307
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
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Lifetime Rennlist
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Yup, you have several dealers who will spec their own cars only to try to get a "market" price for them. I like how they say it's a market price when there haven't been any transaction on the open market. Do these dealers just pull these ADMs out of their azz and see if they stick? I've put deposits down 2 years ago, I'm trying to establish a relationship with a few good guy dealers, and I understand how the system works now so let's see if I end up with any new GT cars at MSRP that I want to buy....
I've put deposits down 2 years ago, I'm trying to establish a relationship with a few good guy dealers, and I understand how the system works now so let's see if I end up with any new GT cars at MSRP that I want to buy....this is an action of the "little ppl" as we say in chinese. man up and call your customers. hiding behind the desk sucking ***** are "little ppl"
06-04-2017, 01:58 AM
#308
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
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Lifetime Rennlist
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For me, it's:
1. Yes, it's a business with significant capital invested. If they put a single trade above the value of their franchise, then so be it.
2. Yes, I'm against anyone telling me what I can and can't do with things I own. I have no issue signing 12 month buyback options with dealers and have in the past.
3. Yes, they need something to reward people that support the business/brand. If everyone just bought GT cars only both Porsche and dealers would be bankrupt. I have no issue for people that took the risk on the 918 being rewarded with the 911R etc - I didn't want to take the risk for a project that will feed tech into the other cars for years to come.
Far too much whining on this board, Dealers are businesses, Porsche is a business and customers are adults. If you don't want to play the game, go buy something else - life is too short to have a hobby that makes you upset.
1. Yes, it's a business with significant capital invested. If they put a single trade above the value of their franchise, then so be it.
2. Yes, I'm against anyone telling me what I can and can't do with things I own. I have no issue signing 12 month buyback options with dealers and have in the past.
3. Yes, they need something to reward people that support the business/brand. If everyone just bought GT cars only both Porsche and dealers would be bankrupt. I have no issue for people that took the risk on the 918 being rewarded with the 911R etc - I didn't want to take the risk for a project that will feed tech into the other cars for years to come.
Far too much whining on this board, Dealers are businesses, Porsche is a business and customers are adults. If you don't want to play the game, go buy something else - life is too short to have a hobby that makes you upset.
lithia porsche
carlsen prosche
guadin porsche
OUTRIGHT LIES..... to me directly.
no i have no problem paying over msrp.
but i have issues if you promised a car at msrp and then s;hove a rod in my a** AFTER MY CAR ARRIVES.
06-04-2017, 02:10 AM
#309
Race Car
i am with you on all points. BUT many dealers LIE AND THAT IS NOT RIGHT.
lithia porsche
carlsen prosche
guadin porsche
OUTRIGHT LIES..... to me directly.
no i have no problem paying over msrp.
but i have issues if you promised a car at msrp and then s;hove a rod in my a** AFTER MY CAR ARRIVES.
lithia porsche
carlsen prosche
guadin porsche
OUTRIGHT LIES..... to me directly.
no i have no problem paying over msrp.
but i have issues if you promised a car at msrp and then s;hove a rod in my a** AFTER MY CAR ARRIVES.
No doubt there are unscrupulous dealers but we should be careful not to indict them all.
06-04-2017, 02:14 AM
#310
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
^ agree, that's why i specifically list names of those who wronged me
yes there's price on build sheet. then they told me it's $50k in addition to that.. i got up and walked. not worth my time.. i rather be riding my bike instead of arguing with them.
yes there's price on build sheet. then they told me it's $50k in addition to that.. i got up and walked. not worth my time.. i rather be riding my bike instead of arguing with them.
06-04-2017, 02:23 AM
#311
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
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"received a build sheet from the dealer with the total price of the car you have a contract"
perhaps i am too gullible or nice.
i have many build sheets from many dealers.
but several of them will just add ADM TO IT.
and there is no contract with dealers.
the instance with lithia monterey. i know 9 ppl with deposit with them. some for over a year. the deposit is a "contract" per se.... a considertion has been provided to secure a future purchase. how can lithia monterey just unilaterally refund the deposit (tear up the contract in essence). sure we can take them to court but its not worth the time. but what goes around comes around....
i dont leave money on the table
i dont take advantage of others
i expect my counterpart to do the same
i am a businessman, i love money and profit. the smell of greenback gives a major rise. but i make money with moral and integrity. some other, like those i mentioned by name, have little integrity.... and if that's how they chose to conduct their business or lives... god help them when they arrive hell.
perhaps i am too gullible or nice.
i have many build sheets from many dealers.
but several of them will just add ADM TO IT.
and there is no contract with dealers.
the instance with lithia monterey. i know 9 ppl with deposit with them. some for over a year. the deposit is a "contract" per se.... a considertion has been provided to secure a future purchase. how can lithia monterey just unilaterally refund the deposit (tear up the contract in essence). sure we can take them to court but its not worth the time. but what goes around comes around....
i dont leave money on the table
i dont take advantage of others
i expect my counterpart to do the same
i am a businessman, i love money and profit. the smell of greenback gives a major rise. but i make money with moral and integrity. some other, like those i mentioned by name, have little integrity.... and if that's how they chose to conduct their business or lives... god help them when they arrive hell.
06-04-2017, 02:32 AM
#312
Mooty, didn't your build sheet have the total price of the car? I know Porsche reserves the right to change the price but not the dealer unless it was stated and agreed to. If you put a deposit down and received a build sheet from the dealer with the total price of the car you have a contract. Even if you did not put down a deposit, a build sheet with the total price of the car is sufficient for a contract.
No doubt there are unscrupulous dealers but we should be careful not to indict them all.
No doubt there are unscrupulous dealers but we should be careful not to indict them all.
06-04-2017, 02:36 AM
#313
than me. We are simply...Rennlisters. A band
of brothers. And you ARE part of my social circle!
We ate sushi together when I assembled a group
meeting of Rennlister 987 Spyder & Cayman R
owners at Sharkswerks in Fremont (CA) with
Alex Ross when Steve Colletti picked up his car
at that shop!
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...rks-today.html
*
Too bad. I was ready to refer you
new clients!
*
Not yet. But if we rid of this
leftist Argentinian pope soon,
I will try my best to get elected!
Watch for the white smoke! And
if so, all bets are off!
*
provided you with some of the strongest
evidence for your 'anti-flipper' arguments!
*
This is a problem in general with GT
cars, which are what interest me and
most people here. PCNA has taken
care of me after I talked to them
about my concerns. Porsche makes
enough GT cars. The supply is being
artificially limited by unscrupulous
dealers and flippers, who are the
real problem.
The flipper and ADM problem exists
outside of VIP program, outside of
Porsche, with cars being made in
higher volume. Camaro Z/28s,
BRZs, and mustangs are sold at a
discount now, but flippers and greedy
dealers tried to gouge people early on
because they restricted the supply to
the few people who really wanted the
car.
cars, which are what interest me and
most people here. PCNA has taken
care of me after I talked to them
about my concerns. Porsche makes
enough GT cars. The supply is being
artificially limited by unscrupulous
dealers and flippers, who are the
real problem.
The flipper and ADM problem exists
outside of VIP program, outside of
Porsche, with cars being made in
higher volume. Camaro Z/28s,
BRZs, and mustangs are sold at a
discount now, but flippers and greedy
dealers tried to gouge people early on
because they restricted the supply to
the few people who really wanted the
car.
the problem correctly. But that is just
one man's opinion. But I would be
willing to sit down with you over wine
& talk about it. I promised I will not
brag about the value of my car nor
its low miles. But I will show it to you
just to be a good sport. Look me up
when you are next in Scottsdale. Peace!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
06-04-2017, 03:03 AM
#314
Rennlist Member
This is a great "problem" for any company to have. I hope they don't get too cute with trying to accomplish this. Its merely a result of a great product.
Take Nike for example. They tried to crack down on people flipping Jordans/Shoes 2 years ago. They spent millions on changing the release system, charged +$25 more and started to make more than enough so everyone could have them. Now a days you can find 5-7 models what would have been easy sellers in their Nike Factory store at any time. Once the hype disappeared so did their sales. Their stock is down over 20% in the last 2 years.
Porsche should just embrace it and let it take its course.
If anything crack down on dealers charging ridiculous premiums on them. Hype is never a bad thing for a company to have.
Take Nike for example. They tried to crack down on people flipping Jordans/Shoes 2 years ago. They spent millions on changing the release system, charged +$25 more and started to make more than enough so everyone could have them. Now a days you can find 5-7 models what would have been easy sellers in their Nike Factory store at any time. Once the hype disappeared so did their sales. Their stock is down over 20% in the last 2 years.
Porsche should just embrace it and let it take its course.
If anything crack down on dealers charging ridiculous premiums on them. Hype is never a bad thing for a company to have.
06-04-2017, 07:15 AM
#315
Race Director
Originally Posted by STG
Eduardo, who can be credited as being the architect of the 918 VIP Program?