STG

OMFS

I'll believe they are "cracking down" when we all get allocations.

bronson7

Well it's better they say they're cracking down then say, they can't control what the dealer does. Let's just hope all who wants one, gets one, including me.

CHADW

Seven cars, only two of which weren't GT cars, in 9 years. That's not even close to a game point, let alone set or match points. And I'm not even factoring in EVERY car was from a different dealer.

Which dealer that has sold him ONE car in the last 9 years owes him a super hot commodity?

A guy who buys one regular car every few years is worth infinitely more to the dealer and manufacturer. Hint, it's not hard to find GT buyers. They are treats for good customers.

james545

..

orthojoe

Amen. I consider flippers to be total scumbags and wish nothing but failure for these people.

Porsche can't be like Tesla (yet) because the NADA mafia is fighting hard to stay alive. Things will change. Consumers demand it. It's no secret that the vast majority of customers hate the car buying experience, no matter what brand.

gago1101

Do not disagree, Joe. But the only thing a flipper does is practice capitalism 101. Anyone who is involved in trading in the free market in any industry is a flipper of sorts, including the stock market. That is how people make money: buy cheap sell for more, or take a cut. The difference is if the practice is the accepted norm or not.

Why doesn't PCNA start interviewing buyers? That will root out the flippers. A few good questions and an astute interviewer will determine if one is an enthusiast or a potential flipper. Why not? we have this model in many other fields to root out bad apples. Could easily be done over the phone. I remember Toyota interviewing me when I was interested in their Mirai.

PS: ...and yes, one would want someone like Joe to interview, as he will spot the flippers before the end of the second sentence. They could even have known enthusiasts volunteering as interviewers. This would be fair.

orthojoe

Lol. They wouldn't want me because I would be throwing F bombs and jumping across the table at the flippers.

All of the 'capitalism' people need to explain to me what a CARTEL is and why they are illegal.

gago1101

Some cartels don't have the same pull with the government like the drug or oil industry. There are legalized forms of cartels all around us, unfortunately.

Archimedes

While I agree with the anti flipper sentiment, I don't believe that any of the elements in this chain of production/supply/sale remotely meets the definition of a Cartel. The high end car market is better described as monopolistic competition and the issue is not collusion among independent market participants, but simply supply/demand imbalances that are being exploited due to the fact that the market is not purely competitive.

Leica 993

If the cars are so special, why doesn't Porsche charge more for them?

IrishAndy

Freakishly well said.

Porsche created Porsche flippers by limiting supply and then setting an artificially low MSRP relative to the supply constraint.

Funny thing is, if Porsche 'cracks down' on flippers all it will probably mean is that customers will have to make first-year sales back to the selling dealer at MSRP (and well below the market price), so the Dealer simply becomes the flipper instead of the customer. Zero-sum game.

Benedict14

I either made my point badly, or you missed it. Probably the former.

Regarding my comment about Laguna Dude - He's obviously a long time Porsche buyer. He keeps them, drives them and tracks them. Why would the company make it difficult for him to pay them over $160K for one of their products. Because he hasn't established the necessary level of 'relationship' with a specific dealership ? That doesn't seem like a sound reason to screw him around.

I understand the fact that GT cars are treats for good customers. The question is, should that be the case ? I accept that some cars will be limited in number purely through complexity, price or timing. The 918, Club Coupe etc. The 911R and the GT3 do not fit the mould. They could have been built in numbers that allowed anyone who could afford one, to own one. Allowing Porsche to profit further (it is a publicly traded company) and customers to remain happy. Restricting over half of the small number of PTS 911R to "family members" is perceived as hubris.

Porsche have acknowledged publicly that they pissed off a lot of customers with the 911R. To make things right, they follow up with the (rumored) GT3 touring package. Then .... limit its production. WTF ?

Long winded perhaps. Apologies. Just my opinion.

tonymission

Ehhh... sort of, maybe.

The expectation at my local dealer is they give me a car at MSRP, they buy it back from me a little below MSRP and then re-sell it for MSRP with X,xxx miles. If they're going to sell it for market value then they wouldn't have sold it to me in the first place for market value. Obviously that's not all dealerships, but that's essentially how it works at the 'Good Guys'.

Could I go sell my GT3 MT (that I don't technically have an allocation for) for market value on the secondary market? Sure, but then I'm going to have a hard time getting the next car from them so it's a scratch my back, scratch your back scenario. You have to decide how much profit is worth it to essentially burn the bridge with your dealer. I get the sense from them that if they know you'll take every GT car and play this game with them without a lot of haggling then you're going to be in line for most of these builds. They know they'll always get at least two sales out of the car with a willing participant. I'm at the start of it, but I know guys who have been doing this and that's how it worked for them.

Personally, I don't have a problem with not being able to make money on the secondary market if eventually I'll be considered for PTS builds and I'm on the text list to submit builds and all of that without having to bug anyone or show up to the dealership every weekend to check on "The List" or even submit deposits.

Nick

Exactly! I do not buy coveted GT cars to make a profit. I buy them to drive and when I tire of them (which is often) I turn them in back to the dealer. I let them make the profit in return for them to make these coveted cars available to me at MSRP. I learned this from my Ferrari days and now in the program with Porsche GT cars.

Hell, with Ferrari it was better. The mid-engine models always came out first with the coup and then a year or so later the Spider. I would order the coupe and turn it in when I ordered the Spider. Great program.