orthojoe

Yes. Right here.

Got a phone call from the dealer a few weeks later offering me an allocation during the next round at msrp

mcp486

Unfortunately, the "good guy" dealer list is shrinking by the day. They're still out there, but if you switch now, you're pretty late to the party.

krell

I said no thanks, posted it here but didn't notify PAG. I have no idea what that would accomplish and suspect my correspondence would fall into a black hole anyway.

Less than two weeks later that same dealer called me back and offered an allocation at MSRP for something in 2018 more than likely.

mcp486

..

evilfij

I think what is missed in a lot of the complaining is the legal and contractual (but also practical) restrictions on what Porsche can do.

They can do two things: (1) build more cars; (2) raise the MSRP. The (3) which they may be able to do, is control the dealers that enable flippers. It is actually illegal under franchising laws for a manufacturer to require a dealer to sell at MSRP and, with certain exceptions too complicated to explain here, for a manufacturer to sell direct to the customer. However, unless there is something in the dealer agreements regarding allocations, Porsche can cut allocations for dealer who sell at a premium or enable flippers.

Raising the MSRP might be a good answer, but I don't know what the dealer franchise agreements say about that, if anything, nor do I know the margin on a GT car for Porsche. Regardless, this is a business decision by Porsche. If it can keep its high volume dealers happy with a lot of allocations (my dealer is getting like 30 GT3s) that create profit and that dealer sells more 911 and other porsches, then that is Porsche's business choice.

Building more cars. Not sure that is possible. But another good answer and, again, a business decision. If everyone could have a GT3 or GT3RS who wanted one, would all the people still want one? Are they Veblen goods? If you take out the flippers, does the demand fall? I mean anyone can have a turbo anyway they want right now. What makes a GT3 so special if it is not its exclusive status?

What should happen, is that dealers should be incentivized to sell to non-flippers and to charge no more than MSRP and, while at the same time, continue to incentivize the dealers to sell more cars that are less desirable. I have some direct experience with this another brand, but allocations can and are controlled by the manufacturer. Sell a lot of the less popular cars (by discounting), move some inventory the manufacturer is having trouble with moving for them, get more of the popular model and get them early. Screw long term customers to make a quick buck selling to flippers, other dealers, etc. so the long term customers call the manufacturer and complain about having bought a bunch of cars but can't get a new one, well that dealer gets its allocation cut. I think this is what is happening now, but hard to tell without being inside the system.

Me, I emailed the one local dealer I like and said, "hey, can I get an allocation, I will pay market (which it was clear I was willing to pay a premium) but I want to order my car because I have odd tastes" and they called me were like "we don't sell under MSRP" I was like lol what are you talking about, I am willing to pay over MSRP, isn't this basically an auction? I am willing to pay market value -- $25k or $30k or whatever is fair I just want to buy from you as I want to buy local and I don't trust the other guys (they ****ed me in 2005 with a 997 allocation) which turned me to another brand. They were like "no, we charge MSRP" we will put you on the list. Probably a year, 18 months or so and charged me a deposit (which was a lot less than I was thinking).

I don't plan to sell barring some life altering circumstance (job loss, becoming crippled again so I can't drive it and having no chance of recovery) and I am happy to wait. I just want a manual NA fast Porsche before I can't buy one new anymore. I will probably own it for a decade at least. I have sold one car in the last ten years (I just keep buying more) and that was because I was unable to drive it and it seemed unlikely I would get better. I sold it. I regret it because I did get better and miss it and now they don't sell them anymore new. :-(

mcp486

Related to your post- how is Porsche controlling pricing/allocations to VIP customers without violating dealer agreements or the law?

evilfij

Carrot/stick the dealers is not illegal. "Hey, Bob here bought ten porsches in the last five years, he wants a GT3, sell him one at MSRP and we will [give you an extra allocation/or else we will cut an allocation]." Requiring a dealer to sell at X price is illegal under franchise laws, a strong arming here or there is not. And most of the time the dealer and manufacturer are in alignment of interests. I have no idea what the dealer agreements say and that is the variable which I would most like to know, I just don't have insight enough to say with any level of certainty.

mcp486

For sure, we know this happens..."sell this 2016 Panamera Turbo Executive and we'll give you a few bonus allocations." I'm just curious how they're consistently doing it with the VIP program.

sccchiii

To simplify the answer it was signed off by all Porsche dealers when VIP program launched as basically addendum to dealer agreements. Dealers signed on because they didn't want to risk losing a possible 918 allocation if a future customer wanted to order one. Most manufacturers have special language created for niche or super limited production vehicles because no sales metrics can be used to allocate them that is equitable to all dealers so the normal process is thrown out window. The turn and earn system can't work so they set up front parameters that vary wildly depending on vehicle.

altonj

Dealer has "previously owned" GT3RS cars on the showroom floor for 100K over MSRP up here. You want a new GT3 with three pedals, you MUST trade in your current GT car so they can make a killing on it... Perhaps they should be going after the dealers?? Total crock of you know what...

evilfij

Just remember, no one wanted a turbo S 993 in 1997 or a C2S 993 in 1998. They were being discounted to sell. And my one Land Rover defender sat on the lot for almost a year before it sold. Oh, and probably the best resale value vehicle of the last 25 years that is not a super exotic, the Land Rover defender 110, a bunch got bought back, a lot caught fire, and they all rusted away. Now a nice original is worth what a new GT3 is and a restored one you are GT3RS money.

You never know what will be popular in the future is my only point. So I am going into this with the idea that I am lighting $150k on fire. And, if not, it's all upside.

Edit: I sold my D90 because my wife made me. After we divorced, I bought it back. I am nothing if not loyal to my cars. I still have her to this day. SOON (she is waiting for the GT3)

sccchiii

The "bonus allocations" fall under a "sales contest' programs which they put in place under most state franchise laws as long as all dealers have ability to buy same car/s or hit an objective on a sales contest to get allocations (for instance more GT3) that is equitable (many stores never like the sales objective number for their particular store or think it is unfair but Porsche uses history metrics or market metrics (registrations of a model segment it competes in) to create objective number and that makes it hard to challange in court. This happened a lot on 991.1 GT3 in 2015/2016, 911 objective numbers were given out by Porsche and if a dealer hit those sales objectives were awarded another GT3 build or more depending on how high a particular store's objective was.

mcp486

Cool, thanks for the insight!

Bartleby7334

Hint: its the engine.

(Apologizing in advance for editing your quote to highlight this point)

hf1

"Franchise laws" (aka dealer rackets holding both the manufacturers and the consumers hostage) are the problem.