Drifting

CJ,

I disagree. i posted about this on another thread. Lightness is not unique to the R or the touring GT3 version. And its just cheating to talk about linton bits, because you could do that to any Porsche, R, GT3, or otherwise.

If someone orders a manual .2 GT3 with manual transmission, LWB, PCBB, and the light battery, then that .2 GT3 will only weigh about 15-20lbs more than a 911R, have the same or realistically a better engine, and cost less than half the cost of the market price currently for a 911R.

15-20lbs isn't worth the extra cost of the 911R. 15-20lbs of weight loss in the front fenders/roof are the only unique tech in the 911R vs a manual 991.2 GT3 chosen with the lighter factory options.

MaxLTV

Ok, let's use simple high school level physics - it's enough for perfect calculation of some of the made up numbers thrown around. At 100MPH, .1 RS delivers 140lbs of downforce at 100MPH (calculated from top speed downforce quoted by manufacturer). That's an increase of ~7.4% in traction at the rear axle compared to zero-lift car (based on 62% of weight on the rear). Increase in traction of 7.4% gives us 3.6% increase in maximum cornering speed, which is 3.6MPH at 100MPH, not 0.5MPH as you mentioned (off by 7x). More than 3/4 of people I drive with on track easily can tell 3.6MPH difference through the corner by feel - no need to be specially gifted for that, just practice once a month or so.

But it's all assuming the loss in rear traction is perfectly balanced by traction loss at the front. What if it's not? If you take a balanced car and take away 7.4% of traction at the rear leaving the front the same, the speed reduction to stably corner will have to be 2x or more the reduction in case both ends lose the same percentage (this one is approximated, not a precise formula like others). So if wing is taken away and front is not balanced, you'd have to corner by 7%+ slower to not spin. That's A LOT.

Of course, we do not corner at 100MPH on roads at the limit of traction (I was using 100MPH only because you mentioned it in your inaccurate analogy), so I agree that in a typical traffic jam GT3s wing is pointless, just like it's suspension, engine, gearing, supportive seats and pretty much everything else about it is. I think we are in agreement here - the wing is just as pointless as the GT3 itself, and thus is the essence of the GT3

Gravs

How did you come to 140lbs at 100 mph?

80s

If somethings changed regarding the touring package which has been for 20 years sofas and non cage please update us!

Trk8

If this happens, nothing is sacred anymore.
Same thing, what happened to the M brand.
When will it stop?
Gt3 convertible to GT3 Panamera.
Isn't there a GTS or Turbo S available?
Diluting an icon if we go this route.
Just call it 911ST(stoopid touring)or (street Tour)

Bardman

Per my comments in another thread, the touring package for RS vehicles has been around since before the GT3 was even a thing (as far back as the 1960's).

This is no dilution of an icon, it's a continuation of a long standing Porsche tradition. The GT3 is the relative new kid on the block.

Trk8

You are right in respect to being a fairly new kid on the block. Who knows Maybe they should of just made the RS.
In the past it was less derivatives of the base car and then their were the few homologation cars.
Just wondering where the line will be drawn. It like saying 911R 911R(L) 911Rluxe 911R long base, 911R limo style. etc etc.
Compare to the old days, now we have must more flavors to choose. Sometimes Less is more. That is why the old days was great when it comes to collectibles. Like numismatics or Art that are circulated and perishable vs unused and oversaturated. You have that one car that represents the brand and the time period. I guess there is a flavor for everyone.

911 base , 911 S , 911 cab, 911 cab S.
911 4, 911 4S, 911 4 cab, 911 4s cab. (X)s that with GTS and Turbos.

Puf n Stuf

Porsche,
Build me a car that revs to 9000
and has no wing.
I don't care what you call it.
I'll accept any type of seat.
Just allow me to buy it.
Thanks.

C.J. Ichiban

Stock for stock: the 20 lbs you are referencing for a touring package is way under estimating

Mag roof
Carbon fenders
Carbon hood
Lightweight flywheel
Radio delete (you cannot delete anymore in2018 )
Addition of rear seats potentially
Seat belts for rear
Sofa seats


Just the lightweight flywheel alone would be 15-20lbs of rotating mass. I think it's a bigger number.


In regards to costs- if you spec out a GT3 with enough options (pccb, Li-ion battery, etc) then your MSRP is 170k. My R was a 200k msrp.

Now, granted, i got mine for msrp and currently they are above msrp. But it is sour grapes to complain that they're over sticker price now when other cars like the 997.1/997.2, 4.0, and gt2rs are all 30-100% over sticker as well.

Tangerine

And has a manual option.

Add me to the list.

Alan Smithee

^ Me, too. Chris, we're waiting...the day is already over in Europe...

drdonger

There is no way a touring GT3 will be as light as an R but you can get pretty close. LWFW, CF fenders, CF hood and Mag roof are the delta. I say that would add up to 60lb. The radio delete can be done after purchase. Just remove the speakers and radio and replace it with the radio delete center. Throw some aftermarket bbs wheels on and you are almost at the same weight.

I think the biggest thing the R will have over a GT3 touring is the LWFW and less sound deadening. I assume suspension calibration and steering will be equivalent if not better.

VECCA

From my point of view, the GT3 touring doesn't need to compete with the R. It doesn't need to be the fastest thing on track either. Like Puf & Tangerine said, 9k, manual and no wing.

Drifting

CJ,

I was not referencing the touring model, I was specifically referring to the .2 GT3 with a manual transmission. You do make good points on the lightweight flywheel and radio delete, neither of which is available on the .2 GT3. So lets add back another total of 35lbs for both of those.

So that puts the 911R at 55lbs lighter than a manual .2 GT3 ordered with LWB, PCCB, and lightweight battery, options which cost 5,200, 9,200, and 4000, putting a .2 GT3 with only those options at $162,000, which is still quite a bit less than the base MSRP of the 911R. Those are factory options. My point isn't to diss the 911R is a bad car, either in performance or in price. I'm glad you have a 911R and you enjoy it.

My main point is that the 911R isn't that lightweight compared to a manual .2 GT3 ordered with the lighter factory options. The R is only about 55lbs lighter.

Chris3963

Touring package definitely confirmed. No wing, manual or PDK. Some options not allowed. Will get the finer details tomorrow.

After which I hope that some of the nastier skeptics and naysayers out their who poo poo'd my announcement months ago will eat a large slice of humble pie.