991.2 GT3 will come with "Touring Package" option
#211
Great question.
1) that depends on the rear steering calibration
2) that depends on how much lighter the 911R is vs the potential Tourer
3) also depends on induction noise tuning as R has a weirder system vs typical GT3
4) porsche suspension/ diff tuning changes?
My guess: the tire compounds are roughly the same but the R (my particular one with light battery, LWB, no radio, no nose lift, and future Linton Lightweight sparkle bits) will be tremendously lighter than a 4 seat leather clad stereo and no CF fenders etc car.
The 100-200+LB difference (with Linton bits) will be a big delta and the experience will be totally predicated on that. None of us know what the changed bits will really "feel like" yet.
But I think the weight savings from R to .2GT3 in touring guise would be really noticeable. My goal is 2800lbs for my R, with fluids and 1/4 tank.
1) that depends on the rear steering calibration
2) that depends on how much lighter the 911R is vs the potential Tourer
3) also depends on induction noise tuning as R has a weirder system vs typical GT3
4) porsche suspension/ diff tuning changes?
My guess: the tire compounds are roughly the same but the R (my particular one with light battery, LWB, no radio, no nose lift, and future Linton Lightweight sparkle bits) will be tremendously lighter than a 4 seat leather clad stereo and no CF fenders etc car.
The 100-200+LB difference (with Linton bits) will be a big delta and the experience will be totally predicated on that. None of us know what the changed bits will really "feel like" yet.
But I think the weight savings from R to .2GT3 in touring guise would be really noticeable. My goal is 2800lbs for my R, with fluids and 1/4 tank.
I disagree. i posted about this on another thread. Lightness is not unique to the R or the touring GT3 version. And its just cheating to talk about linton bits, because you could do that to any Porsche, R, GT3, or otherwise.
If someone orders a manual .2 GT3 with manual transmission, LWB, PCBB, and the light battery, then that .2 GT3 will only weigh about 15-20lbs more than a 911R, have the same or realistically a better engine, and cost less than half the cost of the market price currently for a 911R.
15-20lbs isn't worth the extra cost of the 911R. 15-20lbs of weight loss in the front fenders/roof are the only unique tech in the 911R vs a manual 991.2 GT3 chosen with the lighter factory options.
#212
I graduated top of my class in engineering at Cambridge University - what's your qualification buddy?
The video I posted is from a professional aerodynamicist who makes his living designing racing car aero. The engineering is entirely non-debatable: wings make the square root of *zero* difference to the real-world driving dynamics of road cars like the GT3. Unless your name is Max Verstappen and you're taking every corner at the limit at 100mph and want to push this to 100.5mph, they're completely meaningless.
The video I posted is from a professional aerodynamicist who makes his living designing racing car aero. The engineering is entirely non-debatable: wings make the square root of *zero* difference to the real-world driving dynamics of road cars like the GT3. Unless your name is Max Verstappen and you're taking every corner at the limit at 100mph and want to push this to 100.5mph, they're completely meaningless.
But it's all assuming the loss in rear traction is perfectly balanced by traction loss at the front. What if it's not? If you take a balanced car and take away 7.4% of traction at the rear leaving the front the same, the speed reduction to stably corner will have to be 2x or more the reduction in case both ends lose the same percentage (this one is approximated, not a precise formula like others). So if wing is taken away and front is not balanced, you'd have to corner by 7%+ slower to not spin. That's A LOT.
Of course, we do not corner at 100MPH on roads at the limit of traction (I was using 100MPH only because you mentioned it in your inaccurate analogy), so I agree that in a typical traffic jam GT3s wing is pointless, just like it's suspension, engine, gearing, supportive seats and pretty much everything else about it is. I think we are in agreement here - the wing is just as pointless as the GT3 itself, and thus is the essence of the GT3
#214
If somethings changed regarding the touring package which has been for 20 years sofas and non cage please update us!
#215
If this happens, nothing is sacred anymore.
Same thing, what happened to the M brand.
When will it stop?
Gt3 convertible to GT3 Panamera.
Isn't there a GTS or Turbo S available?
Diluting an icon if we go this route.
Just call it 911ST(stoopid touring)or (street Tour)
Same thing, what happened to the M brand.
When will it stop?
Gt3 convertible to GT3 Panamera.
Isn't there a GTS or Turbo S available?
Diluting an icon if we go this route.
Just call it 911ST(stoopid touring)or (street Tour)
#216
This is no dilution of an icon, it's a continuation of a long standing Porsche tradition. The GT3 is the relative new kid on the block.
#217
Per my comments in another thread, the touring package for RS vehicles has been around since before the GT3 was even a thing (as far back as the 1960's).
This is no dilution of an icon, it's a continuation of a long standing Porsche tradition. The GT3 is the relative new kid on the block.
This is no dilution of an icon, it's a continuation of a long standing Porsche tradition. The GT3 is the relative new kid on the block.
You are right in respect to being a fairly new kid on the block. Who knows Maybe they should of just made the RS.
In the past it was less derivatives of the base car and then their were the few homologation cars.
Just wondering where the line will be drawn. It like saying 911R 911R(L) 911Rluxe 911R long base, 911R limo style. etc etc.
Compare to the old days, now we have must more flavors to choose. Sometimes Less is more. That is why the old days was great when it comes to collectibles. Like numismatics or Art that are circulated and perishable vs unused and oversaturated. You have that one car that represents the brand and the time period. I guess there is a flavor for everyone.
911 base , 911 S , 911 cab, 911 cab S.
911 4, 911 4S, 911 4 cab, 911 4s cab. (X)s that with GTS and Turbos.
#219
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From: Exit Row seats
Originally Posted by Drifting
CJ,
I disagree. i posted about this on another thread. Lightness is not unique to the R or the touring GT3 version. And its just cheating to talk about linton bits, because you could do that to any Porsche, R, GT3, or otherwise.
If someone orders a manual .2 GT3 with manual transmission, LWB, PCBB, and the light battery, then that .2 GT3 will only weigh about 15-20lbs more than a 911R, have the same or realistically a better engine, and cost less than half the cost of the market price currently for a 911R.
15-20lbs isn't worth the extra cost of the 911R. 15-20lbs of weight loss in the front fenders/roof are the only unique tech in the 911R vs a manual 991.2 GT3 chosen with the lighter factory options.
I disagree. i posted about this on another thread. Lightness is not unique to the R or the touring GT3 version. And its just cheating to talk about linton bits, because you could do that to any Porsche, R, GT3, or otherwise.
If someone orders a manual .2 GT3 with manual transmission, LWB, PCBB, and the light battery, then that .2 GT3 will only weigh about 15-20lbs more than a 911R, have the same or realistically a better engine, and cost less than half the cost of the market price currently for a 911R.
15-20lbs isn't worth the extra cost of the 911R. 15-20lbs of weight loss in the front fenders/roof are the only unique tech in the 911R vs a manual 991.2 GT3 chosen with the lighter factory options.
Mag roof
Carbon fenders
Carbon hood
Lightweight flywheel
Radio delete (you cannot delete anymore in2018 )
Addition of rear seats potentially
Seat belts for rear
Sofa seats
Just the lightweight flywheel alone would be 15-20lbs of rotating mass. I think it's a bigger number.
In regards to costs- if you spec out a GT3 with enough options (pccb, Li-ion battery, etc) then your MSRP is 170k. My R was a 200k msrp.
Now, granted, i got mine for msrp and currently they are above msrp. But it is sour grapes to complain that they're over sticker price now when other cars like the 997.1/997.2, 4.0, and gt2rs are all 30-100% over sticker as well.
#220
#222
There is no way a touring GT3 will be as light as an R but you can get pretty close. LWFW, CF fenders, CF hood and Mag roof are the delta. I say that would add up to 60lb. The radio delete can be done after purchase. Just remove the speakers and radio and replace it with the radio delete center. Throw some aftermarket bbs wheels on and you are almost at the same weight.
I think the biggest thing the R will have over a GT3 touring is the LWFW and less sound deadening. I assume suspension calibration and steering will be equivalent if not better.
I think the biggest thing the R will have over a GT3 touring is the LWFW and less sound deadening. I assume suspension calibration and steering will be equivalent if not better.
#223
From my point of view, the GT3 touring doesn't need to compete with the R. It doesn't need to be the fastest thing on track either. Like Puf & Tangerine said, 9k, manual and no wing.
#224
Stock for stock: the 20 lbs you are referencing for a touring package is way under estimating
Mag roof
Carbon fenders
Carbon hood
Lightweight flywheel
Radio delete (you cannot delete anymore in2018 )
Addition of rear seats potentially
Seat belts for rear
Sofa seats
Just the lightweight flywheel alone would be 15-20lbs of rotating mass. I think it's a bigger number.
In regards to costs- if you spec out a GT3 with enough options (pccb, Li-ion battery, etc) then your MSRP is 170k. My R was a 200k msrp.
Now, granted, i got mine for msrp and currently they are above msrp. But it is sour grapes to complain that they're over sticker price now when other cars like the 997.1/997.2, 4.0, and gt2rs are all 30-100% over sticker as well.
Mag roof
Carbon fenders
Carbon hood
Lightweight flywheel
Radio delete (you cannot delete anymore in2018 )
Addition of rear seats potentially
Seat belts for rear
Sofa seats
Just the lightweight flywheel alone would be 15-20lbs of rotating mass. I think it's a bigger number.
In regards to costs- if you spec out a GT3 with enough options (pccb, Li-ion battery, etc) then your MSRP is 170k. My R was a 200k msrp.
Now, granted, i got mine for msrp and currently they are above msrp. But it is sour grapes to complain that they're over sticker price now when other cars like the 997.1/997.2, 4.0, and gt2rs are all 30-100% over sticker as well.
I was not referencing the touring model, I was specifically referring to the .2 GT3 with a manual transmission. You do make good points on the lightweight flywheel and radio delete, neither of which is available on the .2 GT3. So lets add back another total of 35lbs for both of those.
So that puts the 911R at 55lbs lighter than a manual .2 GT3 ordered with LWB, PCCB, and lightweight battery, options which cost 5,200, 9,200, and 4000, putting a .2 GT3 with only those options at $162,000, which is still quite a bit less than the base MSRP of the 911R. Those are factory options. My point isn't to diss the 911R is a bad car, either in performance or in price. I'm glad you have a 911R and you enjoy it.
My main point is that the 911R isn't that lightweight compared to a manual .2 GT3 ordered with the lighter factory options. The R is only about 55lbs lighter.
#225
Touring package definitely confirmed. No wing, manual or PDK. Some options not allowed. Will get the finer details tomorrow.
After which I hope that some of the nastier skeptics and naysayers out their who poo poo'd my announcement months ago will eat a large slice of humble pie.
After which I hope that some of the nastier skeptics and naysayers out their who poo poo'd my announcement months ago will eat a large slice of humble pie.
Last edited by Chris3963; 05-04-2017 at 07:39 PM.