McLaren Success
08-05-2020, 01:34 PM
#5491
I don’t think it’s current owners who are complaining about the depreciation. Most are well aware that they will depreciate. It’s the non-owners and some of the past owners who are banging the drum.
Which I don’t understand, all the current cars depreciate. Look at prices of 488 Pistas, TDFs, 812s, F12s, 488, GT2RS, GT3, RS, 911s, Boxsters, Panameras, Astons, and Lambos. They are all great cars, but this run is over.
I have also said that Porsche’s are the most reliable from my experience. However, the last my last 3 lambo’s, Huracan, Huracan Performante, AVS have been more reliable than any Ferrari I have owned, 360, 360 CS, 430, 430 Scud, and 458 coupe and sp.
I believe a lot of the door issues have to do with the soft close latches. My brand new RR LWB autobiography locked me in the day after it was delivered. But, their reliability is another topic.
Which I don’t understand, all the current cars depreciate. Look at prices of 488 Pistas, TDFs, 812s, F12s, 488, GT2RS, GT3, RS, 911s, Boxsters, Panameras, Astons, and Lambos. They are all great cars, but this run is over.
I have also said that Porsche’s are the most reliable from my experience. However, the last my last 3 lambo’s, Huracan, Huracan Performante, AVS have been more reliable than any Ferrari I have owned, 360, 360 CS, 430, 430 Scud, and 458 coupe and sp.
I believe a lot of the door issues have to do with the soft close latches. My brand new RR LWB autobiography locked me in the day after it was delivered. But, their reliability is another topic.
Reliability wise a friend just leased a brand new Aston Vantage, CEL on drive home diagnosed as an EVAP purge valve leak. Taking the car home a second time, passenger airbag malfunction light...back to service we go
Last week my Speciale **** the bed, some sensor related to the gas pedal died mid canyon run. Limp mode, dash lit up like a christmas tree.... Cost me over 1k for an entire new pedal assembly after labor. Would not expect a Porsche or Porsche GT to do that to me...and could not care less. Chalked it up to part of the experience, paid the "exotic fee" with a smile on my face and got back in the saddle and back on the road. Then rock hit my windshield, OEM glass will cost insurance 6k.
No such thing as a free lunch....it happens and you take the good with the bad, eyes wide open. Supercars have pros and cons like anything else!
08-05-2020, 01:35 PM
#5492
its been around longer than you have 
I don't see the harm, always cool to compare cars and experiences. Let everyone make an informed decision and see what it's like on the other side of the fence. I was curious for a long time!
I don't see the harm, always cool to compare cars and experiences. Let everyone make an informed decision and see what it's like on the other side of the fence. I was curious for a long time!
08-05-2020, 01:42 PM
#5493
Drifting
I would categorize all 911s, regardless of variants, to be a sports car and not an exotic. While some 911 variants offer supercar like performance (eg. GT2RS), it is fundamentally just a sports car.
That's like calling the Mustang Shelby GT500 an exotic because it has 750hp and it is just as fast as some of the supercar. There is nothing on the Mustang that can be considered as an exotic
Criteria for an exotic:
- Exotics looks
- Rarity, not something made in the tens of thousands, and not based on a mass produced platform
- Expensive as heck to service and maintain (eg. windshield on a 458 Speciale is 6k, not 1k on a 911)
- Build from exotic materials
That's like calling the Mustang Shelby GT500 an exotic because it has 750hp and it is just as fast as some of the supercar. There is nothing on the Mustang that can be considered as an exotic
Criteria for an exotic:
- Exotics looks
- Rarity, not something made in the tens of thousands, and not based on a mass produced platform
- Expensive as heck to service and maintain (eg. windshield on a 458 Speciale is 6k, not 1k on a 911)
- Build from exotic materials
Such a nonsensical post. So many here with reading
comprehension issues.
Nothing exotic about a 3RS or 2RS? Hmmm. The definition must have fallen victim to cancel culture since yesterday. Oh well. Lol. I guess I’m stuck with my pedestrian super beatle with a wing. 😢
3RS and 2RS poser 918s? Lol. This is so ridiculous doesn’t even merit a response. We’ll just let you wander around ignorant on that one.
👍
comprehension issues.
Nothing exotic about a 3RS or 2RS? Hmmm. The definition must have fallen victim to cancel culture since yesterday. Oh well. Lol. I guess I’m stuck with my pedestrian super beatle with a wing. 😢
3RS and 2RS poser 918s? Lol. This is so ridiculous doesn’t even merit a response. We’ll just let you wander around ignorant on that one.
👍
Last edited by unotaz; 08-05-2020 at 01:51 PM.
08-05-2020, 02:02 PM
#5494
08-05-2020, 02:04 PM
#5495
Burning Brakes
I would categorize all 911s, regardless of variants, to be a sports car and not an exotic. While some 911 variants offer supercar like performance (eg. GT2RS), it is fundamentally just a sports car.
That's like calling the Mustang Shelby GT500 an exotic because it has 750hp and it is just as fast as some of the supercar. There is nothing on the Mustang that can be considered as an exotic
Criteria for an exotic:
- Exotics looks
- Rarity, not something made in the tens of thousands, and not based on a mass produced platform
- Expensive as heck to service and maintain (eg. windshield on a 458 Speciale is 6k, not 1k on a 911)
- Build from exotic materials
That's like calling the Mustang Shelby GT500 an exotic because it has 750hp and it is just as fast as some of the supercar. There is nothing on the Mustang that can be considered as an exotic
Criteria for an exotic:
- Exotics looks
- Rarity, not something made in the tens of thousands, and not based on a mass produced platform
- Expensive as heck to service and maintain (eg. windshield on a 458 Speciale is 6k, not 1k on a 911)
- Build from exotic materials
. What white is your 918, is it a pearl or metallic? I love white cars for some reason, and it looks to be some type of pearl-metallic
08-05-2020, 02:07 PM
#5496
Drifting
That was speculation on the dealers part. It very well might be 2023 but then I wonder what they are going to sell.
720 coupe production has ended. 720 Spider ends next year.Then you have the 570 replacement and the Elva. Not sure what they do to replace the 720 in 2021,2022 and 2023.
Honestly with their new financial restructuring they may have trashed their stupid Track 25 plan and dialed in their new models. Time will tell.
720 coupe production has ended. 720 Spider ends next year.Then you have the 570 replacement and the Elva. Not sure what they do to replace the 720 in 2021,2022 and 2023.
Honestly with their new financial restructuring they may have trashed their stupid Track 25 plan and dialed in their new models. Time will tell.
As far as Track 25, I suspect (as I have posted previously in this thread) that the equity offerings that took place earlier this year were rights offerings and that the shareholder composition didn’t change materially, if at all - i.e., Mumtalakat is still in charge. Perhaps the Bahrainis and the new CEO have abandoned Track 25.
To the above point, this is how Camilleri responded to a research analyst question about (unnamed) competing marques in Ferrari’s Q2 earnings call:
I don't have a crystal ball. I think we clearly have competitive advantages. I'm encouraged that some of our competitors are focusing on price rather than volume, which clearly is good for us. But we like strong competition, keeps us on our toes.
08-05-2020, 02:11 PM
#5497
Drifting
08-05-2020, 02:21 PM
#5498
the whole 'exotic' or 'supercar / sportscar' criteria thing is a mess. there is so much grey area in there.
GTRs and Vipers are rarer than 911s. Same could be said about lotus exiges and the current NSX.
Some parts on these cars are expensive to replace, The Viper's carbon hood is like $15k to replace.
Exiges and Vipers definitely look exotic imo. at least to the layperson.
if its just a money thing then where do you draw the line where a car becomes exotic and just normal? MSRP of over 100k? 500? a million?.
GTRs and Vipers are rarer than 911s. Same could be said about lotus exiges and the current NSX.
Some parts on these cars are expensive to replace, The Viper's carbon hood is like $15k to replace.
Exiges and Vipers definitely look exotic imo. at least to the layperson.
if its just a money thing then where do you draw the line where a car becomes exotic and just normal? MSRP of over 100k? 500? a million?.
08-05-2020, 02:32 PM
#5499
I would categorize all 911s, regardless of variants, to be a sports car and not an exotic. While some 911 variants offer supercar like performance (eg. GT2RS), it is fundamentally just a sports car.
That's like calling the Mustang Shelby GT500 an exotic because it has 750hp and it is just as fast as some of the supercar. There is nothing on the Mustang that can be considered as an exotic
Criteria for an exotic:
- Exotics looks
- Rarity, not something made in the tens of thousands, and not based on a mass produced platform
- Expensive as heck to service and maintain (eg. windshield on a 458 Speciale is 6k, not 1k on a 911)
- Build from exotic materials
That's like calling the Mustang Shelby GT500 an exotic because it has 750hp and it is just as fast as some of the supercar. There is nothing on the Mustang that can be considered as an exotic
Criteria for an exotic:
- Exotics looks
- Rarity, not something made in the tens of thousands, and not based on a mass produced platform
- Expensive as heck to service and maintain (eg. windshield on a 458 Speciale is 6k, not 1k on a 911)
- Build from exotic materials
08-05-2020, 03:17 PM
#5500
Is there even an official definition of "exotic", "supercar", "hypercar", etc? If not, then it's all just personal opinion anyway.
I'm not sure why it even matters.
When I look in my garage I think both my GT3RS and 600LT are gorgeous and I love them. That's all that really matters to me. I'm not sure why terminology or what other people think on the internet really matters.
I'm sure everyone posting in this thread are great people and I would enjoy meeting any one of you and checking out your cars and driving with you.
I'm not sure why it even matters.
When I look in my garage I think both my GT3RS and 600LT are gorgeous and I love them. That's all that really matters to me. I'm not sure why terminology or what other people think on the internet really matters.
I'm sure everyone posting in this thread are great people and I would enjoy meeting any one of you and checking out your cars and driving with you.
The following 2 users liked this post by AllAboutThatP:
Maverick787 (08-05-2020),
richk (08-05-2020)
08-05-2020, 03:57 PM
#5501
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Is there even an official definition of "exotic", "supercar", "hypercar", etc? If not, then it's all just personal opinion anyway.
I'm not sure why it even matters.
When I look in my garage I think both my GT3RS and 600LT are gorgeous and I love them. That's all that really matters to me. I'm not sure why terminology or what other people think on the internet really matters.
I'm sure everyone posting in this thread are great people and I would enjoy meeting any one of you and checking out your cars and driving with you.
I'm not sure why it even matters.
When I look in my garage I think both my GT3RS and 600LT are gorgeous and I love them. That's all that really matters to me. I'm not sure why terminology or what other people think on the internet really matters.
I'm sure everyone posting in this thread are great people and I would enjoy meeting any one of you and checking out your cars and driving with you.
The following 2 users liked this post by ipse dixit:
Guest89 (08-05-2020),
sampelligrino (08-05-2020)
08-05-2020, 04:12 PM
#5502
Rennlist Member
With the benefit of hindsight, if I may, McLaren could be in a better financial position today if they simply offered an extended warranty on their cars at no additional cost. The reliability reputation of the MP4 12Cs, deserved or not, created an issue for the brand moving forward with the 570 and 650 models, imho. Since McL is a new brand, It is difficult to get rid of the lack of reliability stigma. Bad experiences tend to be magnified and spread dast, and we hear less, or pay less attention, about good experiences. Ferrari addressed maintenance cost fears after the 355/360, starting with 458s, and extended warranties. I know of people who would not touch a Ferrari, until the new warranties came into play. Perception is business reality, unfortunately. Mcl could have mirrored the Ferrari experience.
The current status of the brand is unfortunately not at par with McL's racing pedigree and their leading edge technology efforts (including materials research). Hopefully some good things to come form them in the e future.
The current status of the brand is unfortunately not at par with McL's racing pedigree and their leading edge technology efforts (including materials research). Hopefully some good things to come form them in the e future.
08-05-2020, 06:05 PM
#5503
Rennlist Member
the whole 'exotic' or 'supercar / sportscar' criteria thing is a mess. there is so much grey area in there.
GTRs and Vipers are rarer than 911s. Same could be said about lotus exiges and the current NSX.
Some parts on these cars are expensive to replace, The Viper's carbon hood is like $15k to replace.
Exiges and Vipers definitely look exotic imo. at least to the layperson.
if its just a money thing then where do you draw the line where a car becomes exotic and just normal? MSRP of over 100k? 500? a million?.
GTRs and Vipers are rarer than 911s. Same could be said about lotus exiges and the current NSX.
Some parts on these cars are expensive to replace, The Viper's carbon hood is like $15k to replace.
Exiges and Vipers definitely look exotic imo. at least to the layperson.
if its just a money thing then where do you draw the line where a car becomes exotic and just normal? MSRP of over 100k? 500? a million?.
To me the term "exotic" is passé. It was a colloquial term that basically meant an Italian car like Ferrari or Lamborghini. Today the modern term is "supercar" which means a car of limited production, race car type looks, lightweight, high-end materials/construction and high performance. All of which fits a 2, 3 RS. For a good sports car reference. A Mazda Miata is a sports car.
Regarding rarity as a criteria, I see more Ferraris, Lambos, macs on the road than I see GT3s/RSs/2RSs.
Only the Hypercars truly have a word reserved only for them in the modern automotive world.
I.e. 918, la Ferrari, p1. Only those cars have their own unique category.
08-05-2020, 08:03 PM
#5504
Nordschleife Master
You're right, it's reasonable to expect that every several weeks McLaren's brand reputation has changed by a couple owners chiming in on RL, I'm sure that would change your perception of the brand. Oh wait, I could go back and quote some owners posting their experience to that exact extent and yet here you still are. There is absolutely no sign or requirement to be an owner to participate, all I said is I'm scratching my head as to why you as a non-owner would go out of your way to emphasize things that you don't have personal first hand experience with. Unotaz has been an owner/has experience? You're the only one that continues to be vocal about McLaren's issues beating a dead horse, with my expectation that you'll use it as an opportunity to praise Porsche. I think everyone including myself already knows very well the benefits, merits, and pros of a wonderful Porsche.
I can't speak to why this thread is here in this subforum but my guess is that many GT owners have cross shopped Mac/are interested in the cars, or other exotics, and wanted a place of discussion to share and compare experiences? Which is exactly why I'm not sure why you are here talking about McLaren rather than let the owners and serious actual prospective buyers decide for themselves
and why on Earth would there be a Porsche success thread on Rennlist????? On FerrariChat, it's non-existent because they are bored/underwhelmed by the 911?
I can't speak to why this thread is here in this subforum but my guess is that many GT owners have cross shopped Mac/are interested in the cars, or other exotics, and wanted a place of discussion to share and compare experiences? Which is exactly why I'm not sure why you are here talking about McLaren rather than let the owners and serious actual prospective buyers decide for themselves
and why on Earth would there be a Porsche success thread on Rennlist????? On FerrariChat, it's non-existent because they are bored/underwhelmed by the 911?
Oh, I do have personal first hand knowledge of Mac owner issues. It’s from owners themselves telling us unless you are calling them liars.
Im the only one vocal about Mac issues?. Seriously? Lol. How many thousands of posts are on this thread? I’m the only one discussing Mac reliability issues? Hint. Stop scratching your head and open your eyes. Wow.
And why wouldn’t there be a Porsche Success thread on a Porsche forum? Btw is there such a Thread on F Chat or McLaren Life? Doubt it.