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Anyone who says a GT3 RS is slow is talking gibberish - just my opinion.
TBH a GT3 RS IS relatively speaking not that fast, short of on a road course of course but even still, its not a rocket ship...granted its one off the best feeling sports cars on a track, which is easily an epic strong suit of the car!
Oh, so that’s the test of whether a car is an exotic. We just ask a 5 year old. OMFG talk about jump the shark. 🤣 Oh, and the back up test is I know it when I see it.🤪
This beauty would likely lose out most of the time.
GT3RS slow? More non sense.
Last I checked the 3RS was not designed for the drag strip but not slow there either.
Putting aside fantasy, bias and what I have qualifies and yours doesn’t bs looks like the facts say otherwise looking at track times. Oh, and the 3RS only has this little 6 cylinder and it’s only na too. Whoa!
Either the RS just made the grade or the others just got cut from the team.
The purpose of the GT - in my opinion - was to build another model line out of McLaren’s basic building blocks.
The problem, based on commentary, is that the car is neither fish nor fowl: It is the least sportive McLaren (who wants to buy the least sporty car from a company that only makes “supercars” - ?) but cannot with a straight face be called a “Grand Tourer” in the modern conception of the term because it falls short of offerings from Ferrari, Aston Martin, Bentley, Merc, BMW, etc. in that category. The niche is too thin.
Regardless, I like the looks of the GT and suspect it is an excellent road car.
agree. I got a M8 for a daily earlier this year. It’s a proper GT touring car and great for daily duties. The GT might be fine but I drove one and on the interior it was too similar to the 720 but not enough power.
I do like the looks but it’s a lost soul trying to find its place in the world of sports cars.
Look I get it, the GT3RS is the most expensive car in your garage and you are butt hurt that it's not an exotic.
But the GT3RS is not a supercar. Not in looks, not in construction, not in performance.
I think I am unbiased when I say this. I own a wide range of cars: Porsches, Ferraris, BMW, and even a pedestrian Ford. I did a restomod of a 1973 240Z a few years back that won Best of Show at SEMA and it got made into a Hot Wheels car and you can play my car in Gran Turismo on your Playstation.
Once again, I will go back to my example of the Mustang GT500. By your definition, then the Mustang GT500 must be a supercar too no?
GT3RS is slow by today's standard. Anyone who understands cars will tell you that lap time on the track has nothing to do with going fast on the street/canyons. You put a car with grippy tires and high downforce, that thing will be fast on the track. However, with only 500hp with a tiny 339ft/lbs of torque, on the street it's going to have a hard time keeping up in the canyons with the likes of the 720S. This is the reason why the 911 Turbo S is one of the fastest cars in the real world. The Turbo S might not be as fast as the GT3RS on track, but on the streets, Turbo S with like for like drivers, will destroy the 3RS.
Originally Posted by Waxer
Oh, so that’s the test of whether a car is an exotic. We just ask a 5 year old. OMFG talk about jump the shark. 🤣 Oh, and the back up test is I know it when I see it.🤪
This beauty would likely lose out most of the time.
GT3RS slow? More non sense.
Last I checked the 3RS was not designed for the drag strip but not slow there either.
Putting aside fantasy, bias and what I have qualifies and yours doesn’t bs looks like the facts say otherwise looking at track times. Oh, and the 3RS only has this little 6 cylinder and it’s only na too. Whoa!
Either the RS just made the grade or the others just got cut from the team.
Exactly. There is no argument on the Aventador being a supercar. There is no argument when people see a Mclaren 720S that it's not a supercar.
When people see a 911, 95% of the people will classify it as a sports car.
Originally Posted by Guest89
The “I know it when I see it” definition is the most accurate description in my opinion; there are a multitude of opinions in this thread about what constitutes a “supercar” or “hypercar,” and there is considerable debate about whether any 911 variant qualifies - a few observations:
Most (all?) participants in this thread own or have owned a 911, and probably a rare, more expensive, more sporting version vs. the most commonly seen variants (i.e., GTx cars); the fact that there is significant debate over whether or not any 911 is a supercar indicates that it probably is not a supercar
Some don’t care whether or not their / any 911 is a supercar, in particular those contributors who own vehicles whose supercar bona fides are not in doubt - wonder why?
I don’t think that there’s any debate that all McLarens are supercars (notwithstanding the fact that McLaren themselves call the “entry-level” cars Sport Series!)
Can we just all agree that McLarens have lower than average reliability and resale instead of debating whether 911's are exotic or not? The 570s I had definitely looked exotic, drove very well, but my '19 RS blows it away from a special driving experience perspective. The RS makes me feel like I'm in a race car and that I can decimate all track records. The 570s made me feel like a rockstar. 2 totally different ownership experiences. Some day I hope I can move back into an "exotic" that can deliver both aspects (track star AND rock star) and not have shoddy build quality nor resale value.
Definitely some truth there. When I asked my kids (all under teen age still) which car they liked better, they all said the 600LT, without hesitation. That being said, I think the GT3RS is a beautiful car. It’s not as exotic looking as the Mac, but beautiful in a more sophisticated, timeless way.
The 918 is probably one of the most gorgeous cars ever made IMO. I’m jealous of yours.
Truth. the 991/2 platform all look too similar making it just "another" Porsche 911. Speedster/GT3RS/GT2RS/GT3/GT/RSR/R/4S/S/Targa/Turbo/Turbo Exclusive, etc. have the same looks with small bits of changes from a bigger wings to different bumpers... definitely not exotic in my eyes. I was at a cars and coffee with a bunch of supercars and the Porsche 911 section was the least busy... no one really cared or took notice... and these weren't kids. Just saying!
Last edited by carrera911me; 08-06-2020 at 02:12 PM.
Can we just all agree that McLarens have lower than average reliability and resale instead of debating whether 911's are exotic or not? The 570s I had definitely looked exotic, drove very well, but my '19 RS blows it away from a special driving experience perspective. The RS makes me feel like I'm in a race car and that I can decimate all track records. The 570s made me feel like a rockstar. 2 totally different ownership experiences. Some day I hope I can move back up to an "exotic" that can deliver both aspects (track star AND rock star) and not have shoddy build quality nor resale value.
No such thing as a free lunch... pairing exotic with not "shoddy build quality nor resale value" is probably an oxymoron unless limited VVVIP car (918 tdf etc) if even that, and then you are looking at north of 500k entry price minimum. These things are hand built hand crafted machines produced in relatively small quantities with exotic materials, exotic construction, huge R&D
My only point in highlighting how a 911 is not an exotic nor supercar *in my opinion*, is to emphasize what you gain intangibly driving/owning/just even looking at an exotic, versus a 911 (the "tradeoff")
Waxer and some are emphasizing on the cons about exotic ownership as it relates to Mac (depreciation, running costs, headaches, warranties, reliability - I argue this plagues all exotic brands to various extents) in comparison with the Porsche GT experience, and IMO one should be equally highlighting the "pros" as well then of a supercar (exotic) vs a sports car because that's what makes the negatives worth it in some scenarios
Otherwise if we want to bore into depreciation, and reliability, go drive a Lexus and call it a day. It's spectrum and individually we will all fall differently on said spectrum, Porsche has a sweet spot there I'll be the first to admit, but is not the only right answer (even on Rennlist)
There is no substitute for a Porsche, but that doesn't make Porsche the only option
So on the canyons around Malibu, are you faster in the 3RS than in the Turbo S? When I had my Turbo S, I put Cup 2 tires on them and it wasn’t even close for me.
Originally Posted by richk
I went from a 991TTS to a GT3RS. And believe me I like to go fast.
The GT3RS is plenty fast...instead of discussing macs move to the Kevin Estre thread.
No such thing as a free lunch... pairing exotic with not "shoddy build quality nor resale value" is probably an oxymoron unless limited VVVIP car (918 tdf etc) if even that, and then you are looking at north of 500k entry price minimum. These things are hand built hand crafted machines produced in relatively small quantities with exotic materials, exotic construction, huge R&D
My only point in highlighting how a 911 is not an exotic nor supercar *in my opinion*, is to emphasize what you gain intangibly driving/owning/just even looking at an exotic, versus a 911 (the "tradeoff")
Waxer and some are emphasizing on the cons about exotic ownership as it relates to Mac (depreciation, running costs, headaches, warranties, reliability - I argue this plagues all exotic brands to various extents) in comparison with the Porsche GT experience, and IMO one should be equally highlighting the "pros" as well then of a supercar (exotic) vs a sports car because that's what makes the negatives worth it in some scenarios
Otherwise if we want to bore into depreciation, and reliability, go drive a Lexus and call it a day. It's spectrum and individually we will all fall differently on said spectrum, Porsche has a sweet spot there I'll be the first to admit, but is not the only right answer (even on Rennlist)
There is no substitute for a Porsche, but that doesn't make Porsche the only option
Why do we as car buyers have to accept that when we spend MUCH more to buy an exotic car that we have to put up with the bull**** of poorer reliability and resale? Pretty much everything else that's expensive in the world doesn't work this way. Imagine buying an AP watch and it has poorer build quality than a Casio G-shock. Imagine buying your 10 bedroom mansion and it's built worse than a crack house in Compton. Would you accept that?
I find it odd that people are ok with this.... I get the higher insurance cost, the higher service hourly rates. If I'm spending north of $200K for a car, I expect it to be better built than my Lexus. Why does my 570s which has almost same MSRP as my GT3RS have abysmal build quality and resale when it's considered the exotic car between the two?
Why do we as car buyers have to accept that when we spend MUCH more to buy an exotic car that we have to put up with the bull**** of poorer reliability and resale? Pretty much everything else that's expensive in the world doesn't work this way. Imagine buying an AP watch and it has poorer build quality than a Casio G-shock. Imagine buying your 10 bedroom mansion and it's built worse than a crack house in Compton. Would you accept that?
I find it odd that people are ok with this.... I get the higher insurance cost, the higher service hourly rates. If I'm spending north of $200K for a car, I expect it to be better built than my Lexus. Why does my 570s which has almost same MSRP as my GT3RS have abysmal build quality and resale when it's considered the exotic car between the two?
Very odd world we live in.
I'm not sure "reliability" is the right word.
I think a better word is "finicky".
To take your analogy with fine timepieces, an Audemars Piguet or a Patek, while gorgeous to look at and made with exquisite craftsmanship with the most exotic of materials (gold, platinum, lightweight mainsprings, column wheels, etc.), they tend to be more finicky than a digital quartz watch from Casio or Timex or a Seiko (the Porsches of watches). They require more regularly maintenance and service, are not nearly as accurate, and oftentimes have imperfections with things like the face or case simply because they are hand assembled and not simply built on an assembly line.
Same with cars that are considered "exotics" -- the are never going to be as reliable as a mass-produced Camry or even a mass produced 911. They are going to be finicky with quirks and personality. That's sort of the quiddity of their exoticness.
08-06-2020, 02:12 AM
The 570s I had definitely looked exotic, drove very well, but my '19 RS blows it away from a special driving experience perspective. The RS makes me feel like I'm in a race car and that I can decimate all track records. The 570s made me feel like a rockstar. 2 totally different ownership experiences. Some day I hope I can move back into an "exotic" that can deliver both aspects (track star AND rock star) and not have shoddy build quality nor resale value.
