911R Driving Impressions
07-21-2017, 04:36 PM
#466
Rennlist Member
The flywheel has nothing to do with clutch pedal effort. The pressure plate design and slave cylinder bore size are what control pedal effort.
The R was designed for the "street", hence the lighter pedal, and steering weight.
The R was designed for the "street", hence the lighter pedal, and steering weight.
07-21-2017, 05:09 PM
#467
Race Director
Originally Posted by Mvez
The flywheel has nothing to do with clutch pedal effort. The pressure plate design and slave cylinder bore size are what control pedal effort.
The R was designed for the "street", hence the lighter pedal, and steering weight.
The R was designed for the "street", hence the lighter pedal, and steering weight.
07-22-2017, 05:54 AM
#468
Suitcase,
My R is still in break-in, and I am exercising extreme self-restraint in following AP's guidelines on optimal break-in procedure, so a fuller write-up on impressions will have to wait.
In the meantime, here is my summary - and these are my opinions only, I am sure people will have different views:
1) 993 RS - I have air-cooled bias and this has always been one of my favorite cars. It always reminds me of driving a high performance go-kart, wrapped all around you. Softer than the 964 RS for sure, but no less capable, and better fitted for the country "B" roads that I often drive in. If I had better access to a good track, the 964 RS might come closer to being preferred. Two highlights for me for this car: a) the size, which is perfect; and b) at 90% of my driving (I am not an expert or track junkie), the car is also at 90%. Most people, myself included, barely touch the performance envelope of the newer cars. By the same token, the biggest downside of the 993 RS is the lack of absolute power compared to the newer cars. Reverse the driving order, drive the 997 4.0 or the 911R first, and then the 993 RS, and the comparative lack of power would make itself more felt. It would, I think, feel less special.
2) 997 RS 4.0 - As good as everyone says, and more. I have some miles in a 997.2 RS and 30K kilos in a 997 GT3, and the 4.0 simply stands tall compared to its brothers. The engine tweaks, and more importantly for me the suspension enhancements, make themselves immediately felt. But here's the interesting thing - AFTER driving the 911R back-to-back, the 997 RS 4.0 begins to feel even more special. There is simply a generational difference in how the cars drive, and what the 4.0 was designed to do, compared to the 911R. With the RS 4.0, you are doing 100% of the driving. That can be good or bad, depending on your POV, but that bridge has been crossed, and there is no turning back. And the 911R...
3) 911R - still in break-in, but the short of it, the car makes you feel like a hero, while at the same time being extremely easy to drive. For a lot of people, that is as close to ideal as possible. It may be heresy in these forums, but the driving experience reminds me most of the Ferrari Speciale, also one of my favorite cars. Not the same, but very very similar. I can easily see a situation where both cars are used as daily drivers. Perhaps this is where all the high performance car designers are heading. Very fast, very capable, with all the right sounds, and very easy to use. The performance envelope is easily accessible, and the auto-blip in the 911R is almost telepathic.
Will report again after I have a couple of thousand kilos in the 911R.
My R is still in break-in, and I am exercising extreme self-restraint in following AP's guidelines on optimal break-in procedure, so a fuller write-up on impressions will have to wait.
In the meantime, here is my summary - and these are my opinions only, I am sure people will have different views:
1) 993 RS - I have air-cooled bias and this has always been one of my favorite cars. It always reminds me of driving a high performance go-kart, wrapped all around you. Softer than the 964 RS for sure, but no less capable, and better fitted for the country "B" roads that I often drive in. If I had better access to a good track, the 964 RS might come closer to being preferred. Two highlights for me for this car: a) the size, which is perfect; and b) at 90% of my driving (I am not an expert or track junkie), the car is also at 90%. Most people, myself included, barely touch the performance envelope of the newer cars. By the same token, the biggest downside of the 993 RS is the lack of absolute power compared to the newer cars. Reverse the driving order, drive the 997 4.0 or the 911R first, and then the 993 RS, and the comparative lack of power would make itself more felt. It would, I think, feel less special.
2) 997 RS 4.0 - As good as everyone says, and more. I have some miles in a 997.2 RS and 30K kilos in a 997 GT3, and the 4.0 simply stands tall compared to its brothers. The engine tweaks, and more importantly for me the suspension enhancements, make themselves immediately felt. But here's the interesting thing - AFTER driving the 911R back-to-back, the 997 RS 4.0 begins to feel even more special. There is simply a generational difference in how the cars drive, and what the 4.0 was designed to do, compared to the 911R. With the RS 4.0, you are doing 100% of the driving. That can be good or bad, depending on your POV, but that bridge has been crossed, and there is no turning back. And the 911R...
3) 911R - still in break-in, but the short of it, the car makes you feel like a hero, while at the same time being extremely easy to drive. For a lot of people, that is as close to ideal as possible. It may be heresy in these forums, but the driving experience reminds me most of the Ferrari Speciale, also one of my favorite cars. Not the same, but very very similar. I can easily see a situation where both cars are used as daily drivers. Perhaps this is where all the high performance car designers are heading. Very fast, very capable, with all the right sounds, and very easy to use. The performance envelope is easily accessible, and the auto-blip in the 911R is almost telepathic.
Will report again after I have a couple of thousand kilos in the 911R.
07-22-2017, 06:57 AM
#469
There is simply a generational difference in how the cars drive, and what the 4.0 was designed to do, compared to the 911R. With the RS 4.0, you are doing 100% of the driving. That can be good or bad, depending on your POV, but that bridge has been crossed, and there is no turning back. .
very interesting to read your comparison of the cars, always wanted a 993rs!
07-22-2017, 07:07 AM
#470
Thank you
Carlos 993
Thank you for your wonderful response. I too followed AP break-in to the letter. There is no doubt that the car comes alive in the higher RPM range. I'll be anxious to hear how you feel about the R once broken in.
Thank you for your wonderful response. I too followed AP break-in to the letter. There is no doubt that the car comes alive in the higher RPM range. I'll be anxious to hear how you feel about the R once broken in.
07-22-2017, 10:06 AM
#471
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Suitcase
Carlos 993
Thank you for your wonderful response. I too followed AP break-in to the letter. There is no doubt that the car comes alive in the higher RPM range. I'll be anxious to hear how you feel about the R once broken in.
Thank you for your wonderful response. I too followed AP break-in to the letter. There is no doubt that the car comes alive in the higher RPM range. I'll be anxious to hear how you feel about the R once broken in.
Thx
Jeff
07-22-2017, 10:30 AM
#472
Suitcase,
2) 997 RS 4.0 - As good as everyone says, and more. I have some miles in a 997.2 RS and 30K kilos in a 997 GT3, and the 4.0 simply stands tall compared to its brothers. The engine tweaks, and more importantly for me the suspension enhancements, make themselves immediately felt. But here's the interesting thing - AFTER driving the 911R back-to-back, the 997 RS 4.0 begins to feel even more special. There is simply a generational difference in how the cars drive, and what the 4.0 was designed to do, compared to the 911R. With the RS 4.0, you are doing 100% of the driving. That can be good or bad, depending on your POV, but that bridge has been crossed, and there is no turning back. And the 911R...
911R.
2) 997 RS 4.0 - As good as everyone says, and more. I have some miles in a 997.2 RS and 30K kilos in a 997 GT3, and the 4.0 simply stands tall compared to its brothers. The engine tweaks, and more importantly for me the suspension enhancements, make themselves immediately felt. But here's the interesting thing - AFTER driving the 911R back-to-back, the 997 RS 4.0 begins to feel even more special. There is simply a generational difference in how the cars drive, and what the 4.0 was designed to do, compared to the 911R. With the RS 4.0, you are doing 100% of the driving. That can be good or bad, depending on your POV, but that bridge has been crossed, and there is no turning back. And the 911R...
911R.
07-22-2017, 01:31 PM
#473
Instructor
Thread Starter
Is there someone else that has driven a 911R that can chime in on how light the clutch feel is with the single mass flywheel? As you may or may not know we completed a conversion on an RS and we are all sitting here wondering why the clutch is so light and in talking to another 911R owner, both the OP and that person and us are all in agreement that it's quite possibly the lightest clutch any of us have ever felt. Yet again this forum could possibly save me from banging my head against a brick wall.
To keep the universe in balance, maybe you can convert my 911R to PDK...
And yes clutch is very light.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/957856-911r-driving-impressions-2.html#post13672324
07-22-2017, 01:33 PM
#474
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by BusDriver
The break in recommendation is here
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...l#post13672324
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...l#post13672324
Jeff
07-22-2017, 05:29 PM
#476
Does AP's 'break-in' advice have any basis in fact? I struggle to think that any of the factory cars were ever run in like that.
I just followed common sense, and the handbook - didn't (don't) drive it hard when cold or hold revs at a constant level for too long; went up and down the rev range, inc to max. Same way I've run in cars for 30 years and never had a problem yet.
Just turning 5k miles, more than one trackday, (and now on second set of tires). It's running and sounding noticeably better than ever, and anyone who's not driving them hard is missing out.
I just followed common sense, and the handbook - didn't (don't) drive it hard when cold or hold revs at a constant level for too long; went up and down the rev range, inc to max. Same way I've run in cars for 30 years and never had a problem yet.
Just turning 5k miles, more than one trackday, (and now on second set of tires). It's running and sounding noticeably better than ever, and anyone who's not driving them hard is missing out.
07-23-2017, 10:47 PM
#477
You are obviously taking things too seriously. It is of course his opinion/his thread and his impressions,while what you think is yours. Bear in mind he has and driven both cars,you don't...
I personally don't understand your frustration...and it is frustration I feel...
Again,it's his thread/his impressions...he did not try to impose his opinions on you...why do you click on it? Carry on...
I personally don't understand your frustration...and it is frustration I feel...
Again,it's his thread/his impressions...he did not try to impose his opinions on you...why do you click on it? Carry on...
07-25-2017, 10:57 AM
#478
Rennlist Member
Jeff
08-04-2017, 09:42 PM
#479
Rennlist Member
Spent much of this week driving the R and then the RS and I have to say the R is so much more engaging and fun! The RS is very precise and explosive but mostly noticeable at higher speeds.
The 911R feels very punchy and ready to go at all times...and the sharp manual transmission really adds to the level of intensity that you tap into instantly. I have been smiling all week, and even my wife noticed how the car is so visceral and exciting (especially the sound during driving and startup).
120 miles in, it is easily the best car I have ever driven - there is some secret sauce in this car. In the canyons it is just so sharp and precise. I just don't want to stop driving! Luckily it is the weekend so plenty of time to jump in.
I had heard so many claims that this car is a hot rod, read reviews that this is the best 911 Porsche ever made for the road, and thought it could be hype. Well, I am convinced and am really enjoying it - and that is the point of a car like this - exciting, fun and just the car I grab the keys to...I don't think this excitement will wear off...
Jeff
The 911R feels very punchy and ready to go at all times...and the sharp manual transmission really adds to the level of intensity that you tap into instantly. I have been smiling all week, and even my wife noticed how the car is so visceral and exciting (especially the sound during driving and startup).
120 miles in, it is easily the best car I have ever driven - there is some secret sauce in this car. In the canyons it is just so sharp and precise. I just don't want to stop driving! Luckily it is the weekend so plenty of time to jump in.
I had heard so many claims that this car is a hot rod, read reviews that this is the best 911 Porsche ever made for the road, and thought it could be hype. Well, I am convinced and am really enjoying it - and that is the point of a car like this - exciting, fun and just the car I grab the keys to...I don't think this excitement will wear off...
Jeff