mqandil

Macca, excellent update. Thank you for sharing the information.
I can understand there could be number of possible factors, from a defective $40 bearing to a failed connecting rod or many other possibilities, but as you said at the end there is a hole in the crankcase, and the oil exiting the hole comes in contact with hot engine ancillaries, resulting in fire. But my concern is not about what is causing the hole, but rather with the fact that the presence of oil around that area can lead to a fire. There could be a number of other things that can happen to an engine that causes oil to leak out aside from a broken con. Rod or disintegrated bearing, including leaking gaskets, or broken heat exchanger lines, etc, etc that results in a fire depending on the amount of oil leaking out in a cramped engine compartment that has inadequate ventilation. To me Fixing what caused the puncture in the crankcase is not addressing the real problem. What happens the next time they have a bad batch of con.rod or bad bearings, or few years down the line when the current or future owner wants to rebuild their engine and ends up with a defective part that can cause a hole in their crankcase. Most Porsche owners keep their cars for so many years and many end up rebuilding, and restoring their engines using OEM, and Non-OEM parts, and I am sure some will end up with a part from a bad batch. What happens then?

Addressing the current component(s) failure that is resulting in crankcase hole is not enough in my opinion. Porsche needs to minimize the chances of that engine catching on fire in the case of an oil leak, regardless of the cause of the leak. I seriously doubt that Porsche would have panicked because of 2 engine failures, as a result of a bad batch of con. Rods or bearings, nor should it warrant a hold on production and recalling all the cars. This engine is very well designed as others pointed out, and it probably has been through millions of miles during testing, and these 2 engines will not be the last ones to fail due to bad components. However the fact that an engine failure can lead to a fire is at the heart of this issue. I seriously doubt that you will see too many engines fail, nor discover an engine design flaw exists.

I think and hope that the Porsche engineers are working or should be working on a possible design revision inside the engine compartment to shield the leaking engine oil of coming in contact with hot engine ancillaries, or perhaps incorporating an engine compartment fire sprinkler system/ automatic extinguisher, that is activated in the event of a fire.

Of course this is all speculation and only time will tell what will be the final fix...

Macca

Mqandil. What you ask is practically impossible. If you throw a con rod through a crankcase you will almost always end in fire. Just watch a motor race where this occurs and you will see a similar outcome. The 911 engine is placed in teh rear and very tightly packed with the mufflers sitting above the wheel;s and the cat converters next to the crank case. there is nowhere else to put them.

SAny engine and hole a case if run too lean, if ignition is interrupted, over furling screwy timing or faulty rod, piston pin etc.

If you don't like the design you can buy a BMW where the cats and exhaust sit in the middle of the car (cats) and opposite end of car (mufflers).

If you know anything about cars and engines you will understand at any time the failure of a critical component at rpm can lead to a hole in the crankcase as a piston exits the case. I can show you many photos from this board where its happened to many of us over the years for various reasons.

As for fire risk. I parked my hot 993 on very dry grass one year when I visited the beach. Some paper blew under the car and the exhaust was son hot it started smouldering - a kid noticed the smoke and told me and I moved it just before it ignited. Was a dry summer too so would have set the park alight. This is a common problem too with old air cooled 911s. Engines run at temp at 120-140 C. Everything gets hot. Its why I have fire extinguisher in that car to this day....ask others happened to plenty.

Macca

Ill try and talk with my PAg contact this weekend and see what developments if any he can share..

mqandil

Macca, you misunderstood me. I am not really complaining at all, and I do know that throwing off a rod in most cases can lead to a fire, and I am also aware of the tight space inside the engine compartment. I don't know of too many other manufactures that can pack efficiently that many components in such a small space, like Porsche does. I am just trying to make sense of why pulling all the cars, including all the ones that has been manufactured months ago. I own 3 Porsches and I have owned 6 Porsches in total over the years and I love and loyal to the brand. Porsche like many other reputable manufacturers have an excellent tracking system of all the parts that go into any given car, So if there is a bad batch of parts they can track these very easily, and which cars they went in. I also don't believe there is an inherent engine design issue here which leaves the presence of a bad batch of a component or couple of components the most plausible explanation, so it does not make much sense to me why pull all the cars when they can track which cars had these bad parts, which is why I was speculating about the other possibilities.
My company builds off-road trucks/ portable moving pumping stations for the US army, disaster relief agencies and rental companies. We actually water proof these trucks to allow them to drive into 3 M depth water so they can navigate into flooded areas to retrieve people and to pump out flooded areas. We actually have 2 engines on board each truck. The first is upfront to power the truck and the other 600 HP engine is in the back to power the large centrifugal pump.
Several years back we had a rash of engine fires (rear engine) that puzzled us for months and mainly occurred in the units that went into high temperature climates. After so many months of trying to identify a cause, we discovered that the fires started after we had a muffler redesign to allow us to gain more ground clearance and ended up bringing the main truck muffler higher and in close proximity to the engine in the back that drives the pump. The muffler is also in a completely sealed enclosed area as we seal the bottom of the truck so it does not come in contact with water. So the muffler sits below the engine and there is no ventilation. We also discovered the fires started in trucks where the rear engine showed signs of oil leakage. Apparently the oil had no where to go, but puddle up in the area above the bottom steel plate and accumulate in very close proximity to the hot muffler. Eventually the oil catches on fire. We also discovered that in most cases the oil did not come in contact with the muffler, but it's presence in a hot enclosure and with no ventilation and in close proximity to the hot muffler was enough to eventually ignite it. Granted we also discovered our customers were using some oil additives, which made the oil fumes more flammable and the situation worse. Regardless this is of course a different situation, and this is not a Porsche, and it is completely different scenario, but the presence of oil in close proximity to a hot source can sometimes spell trouble, and I am always nervous about oil being close to mufflers. But honestly I was not complaining at all, and I have faith in the Porsche engineers to get to the bottom of this and fix it. Really did not mean to offend you, and if I did, please accept my apology. Mark

Macca

Hey Mark, no offence taken and no apology needed. Its always good to learn, and your pump truck story is fascinating. Its amazing how a simple change can upset the equilibrium. A bit like nature really...

As I have stated above, I believe that we are looking at a specific component failure with a build date range. i.e. I don't believe all cars are affected at all. The issue I believe that Porsche face, and the reason they have temporarily quarantined all cars, is that it is a difficult job to forensically inspect a burnt car to determine exact cause and affect. I would imagine they have 2-3 hypothesis and are currently working up simulations on CAD and engine on engine dynos to replicate the failures, identify the parts, investigate the inventory dating system, observe engine building practices on the production line etc. Once the y are convinced they have isolated the component that's failed and the batch that may be responsible they can ring fence the offending VIN cars and produce a campaign with work notes and procedures for dealers to follow. This infact takes weeks. The first Thermostat failure on a customer car was early Dec 2013, the second only a week later but it took till early 2014 for a campaign to be released for this! Unfortunately something as complex as the current situation will take some time - not so much time to clear unaffected VINs but to put a work plan in place of affected VIN then yes...

We will know more in the next 10 days I suspect...

skuplist

Any news on cars on the assembly line or waiting to be built? I assume Porsche has stopped production until they have found the problem. It would not makes sense to continue production.

Nick

Now I am totally confused. Reading the various versions of the letter it is CLEARLY directed to the owner and NOT the dealer.

silverrules

That would be funny if they are still making GT3's

Mike in CA

Started up the car a few minutes ago and backed it out into the driveway. Just like the previous 1K miles, no weird noises, no blown oil lines, rods through the crankcase or conflagration which I choose to take as a positive sign.

Can't drive the damn thing, might as well give it a wax job......

0Q991

^+1.

@Mike in CA -- I think I speak for all of us when I say that more pics of your gorgeous GR GT3 will serve as a healing balm during this time of uncertainty.

redleg321

+1; a pic-heavy thread would be great!

CarObsessed

Like I hinted, I haven't driven the GT3 yet and just have a personal bias for it. On the road, for me, the 458 is a little "less alive". Whenever I looked at the speedo, I saw I was going fast, but it didn't feel fast. My 997.2 C2S feels more alive at lower speeds.

I've only driven the 458 on the track at Las Vegas Exotics Racing (don't be fooled into thinking it's a tourist trap, they do let you rip it if they are sure of your skills) where it was head and shoulders above the others I sampled (GT-R, Aventador, 12C, 997.2 Turbo S). Just when I thought I had the best track experience ever, I bought an '05 Elise and the purity of it's driving experience put it ahead of the high speed thrills of the 458. Going by the reviews, I'm just hoping that the GT3 will feel more alive than the 458.

Conekilr

Perhaps a separate picture thread should be started....

Nick

FWIW, just learned both the owners and dealers got a letter form Porsche. Not sure if has been posted but here is the dealer letter.

“We are writing as promised to keep you informed concerning Porsche’s review of reported engine problems with the 2014 Porsche 911 GT3 sports car. Porsche AG has just this morning released an update and we wanted to share it with you. Porsche AG’s news release is attached for your information.

Of key importance is the following. In an abundance of caution, while Porsche AG investigates the root cause and establishes any necessary repair procedure, we are now asking all 2014 GT3 owners not to drive their cars. In due course, these cars will be returned to you for any repair they may be found to require, and we will work closely with you on that process as well.

We are reaching out individually to the registered owner of every 2014 GT3 which has been retailed in the U.S. and Canada. Our letter to them also is attached, and you will find it self-explanatory.

We recognize that this matter may cause considerable concern and inconvenience to our customers. We know that we can count on your continued support to help minimize the effects and confirm their confidence in Porsche. Thank you very much, and we will continue to be in contact whenever there are updates.”

Mike in CA

Thanks Nick. I assume this is from PCNA to the dealers and it's in line with the e-mail that I received in that it's not specific in terms of detail; no mention of oil and exploding crankcases.

It's still both interesting and strange to me that the Euro letters released that information before the investigation is complete. Maybe it has to do with the consequences of potential liability in US as opposed to European courts. I just don't know....