Stop Sale?
04-01-2014, 09:06 PM
#3557
Rennlist Member
From a RT poster which I believe makes more sense than any theory I have read. I strongly suspect this was the problem.
"The GT3s have used titanium conrods since the first 996 version, so nothing new in that respect. I don't remember for sure offhand if the conrod bolts on earlier versions were also titanium, or steel. Smiley
Titanium screw connections can be a little tricky, calling for a very special (and very expensive!) grease to be used during their assembly as well as for fastening torque to be strictly adhered to, to ensure that the bolts are not overstressed if torque is too high or the bolts do not vibrate loose if the torque is too low.
Since Porsche has been assembling production GT3 engines with titanium conrods for the last 15 years (and much longer than that in racing engines) I'd be surprised if they have now suddenly forgotten how to do it properly.
For this reason I had suspected that maybe the torque calibration of a tool used to assemble some of the customer engine conrods may have been outside normal tolerances, resulting in the two failures of the conrod screw connections we have heard about. Since it would probably not have been possible to reliably identify the engines assembled with incorrect fastening torques, a simple error like that could result in all engines having to be replaced to rule out further problems. "
"The GT3s have used titanium conrods since the first 996 version, so nothing new in that respect. I don't remember for sure offhand if the conrod bolts on earlier versions were also titanium, or steel. Smiley
Titanium screw connections can be a little tricky, calling for a very special (and very expensive!) grease to be used during their assembly as well as for fastening torque to be strictly adhered to, to ensure that the bolts are not overstressed if torque is too high or the bolts do not vibrate loose if the torque is too low.
Since Porsche has been assembling production GT3 engines with titanium conrods for the last 15 years (and much longer than that in racing engines) I'd be surprised if they have now suddenly forgotten how to do it properly.
For this reason I had suspected that maybe the torque calibration of a tool used to assemble some of the customer engine conrods may have been outside normal tolerances, resulting in the two failures of the conrod screw connections we have heard about. Since it would probably not have been possible to reliably identify the engines assembled with incorrect fastening torques, a simple error like that could result in all engines having to be replaced to rule out further problems. "
04-01-2014, 09:20 PM
#3560
Rennlist Member
As for impact on current owners' time and money, it remains to be seen how adequately or not PAG chooses to address that.
04-01-2014, 09:26 PM
#3561
Beautiful pics, Macca, and thanks for the info as usual. Mike, I suspect you are right about the car settling. I wish I took measurements but I believe my car definitely settled a bit. I'm not sure how much settling is needed for the human eye to notice but I don't think it's much.
04-01-2014, 09:32 PM
#3562
Rennlist Member
U should have a detailed history down to the nearest trq'd nut of whatever happened and whatever they have done has rectified that from happening. If they tell it's fixed with no detail and u believe that- stop dreaming. Mike
04-01-2014, 09:40 PM
#3563
Rennlist Member
In any event, I'll try to stop dreaming.
04-01-2014, 09:42 PM
#3564
Rennlist Member
I disagree. Porsche cannot afford another mistake on this car. It would badly tarnished the Porsche engineering mystic and would impact opinions on other models. That is why they are being so careful with this fix. They know this is their last chance. I have no doubt the engine will be even beyond Porsche normal high standards.
04-01-2014, 09:43 PM
#3565
Rennlist Member
Beautiful pics, Macca, and thanks for the info as usual. Mike, I suspect you are right about the car settling. I wish I took measurements but I believe my car definitely settled a bit. I'm not sure how much settling is needed for the human eye to notice but I don't think it's much.
04-01-2014, 10:18 PM
#3567
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GT3 agonies
I have been avidly reading the posts re the GT3 issue. Pardon my treatise, but I feel obliged to respond to many comments on this thread. I apparently have the dubious distinction of taking the last delivery of a GT3 in North America only 3 days before the stop sale order. I figure that I am near last in line for a new engine for those who took delivery. I put about 300 miles on my car and have some observations.
The car is more responsive and powerful than I imagined. I would bet that the car has more than the claimed output. The engine winds out so quickly that I get why AP said that PDK is the proper match for the engine. I did not get a chance to track it, but what hard cornering that I did was impressive, The car is louder than I would prefer, and I would accept a weight penalty to get the standard soundproofing, but not a huge deal. I fully intend to use it on the track on a regular basis, and possibly as a daily driver.
I own or have owned various 911's made in 1968, 1979, 1990, 1998, 1999, 2000. I have lived with the problems inherent in these cars, to include leaking valve covers, chain tensioner failures, blown rubber centered clutches, case/cylinder leaks, RMS leaks, etc. Each issue was frustrating and pissed me off. Porsche certainly did not consistently own up to the design flaws, and at times the fix was costly. Then the magic of the affected car took back over and assuaged my frustration. I have never regretted the decision to buy these cars. I understand those that want to rant and rave over the problem with the GT3. Yes, our money is tied up, we cannot enjoy our expensive toys for a while, and we aren't happy with the lack of transparency from Porsche. However, when I get my car back on the road with the new engine I will again smile, even giggle at the incredible capabilities of this car. It soon will not matter whether Porsche gives me a longer warranty, some financial consolation, or offers to buy it back. Call me hopelessly addicted, but good luck finding a car with this potential, this build quality (as designed), at anything close to the price. I am still happy to be fortunate to soon be enjoying this car on the road.
The car is more responsive and powerful than I imagined. I would bet that the car has more than the claimed output. The engine winds out so quickly that I get why AP said that PDK is the proper match for the engine. I did not get a chance to track it, but what hard cornering that I did was impressive, The car is louder than I would prefer, and I would accept a weight penalty to get the standard soundproofing, but not a huge deal. I fully intend to use it on the track on a regular basis, and possibly as a daily driver.
I own or have owned various 911's made in 1968, 1979, 1990, 1998, 1999, 2000. I have lived with the problems inherent in these cars, to include leaking valve covers, chain tensioner failures, blown rubber centered clutches, case/cylinder leaks, RMS leaks, etc. Each issue was frustrating and pissed me off. Porsche certainly did not consistently own up to the design flaws, and at times the fix was costly. Then the magic of the affected car took back over and assuaged my frustration. I have never regretted the decision to buy these cars. I understand those that want to rant and rave over the problem with the GT3. Yes, our money is tied up, we cannot enjoy our expensive toys for a while, and we aren't happy with the lack of transparency from Porsche. However, when I get my car back on the road with the new engine I will again smile, even giggle at the incredible capabilities of this car. It soon will not matter whether Porsche gives me a longer warranty, some financial consolation, or offers to buy it back. Call me hopelessly addicted, but good luck finding a car with this potential, this build quality (as designed), at anything close to the price. I am still happy to be fortunate to soon be enjoying this car on the road.
04-01-2014, 10:21 PM
#3568
I wasn't responding negatively (or at all, for that matter) to your comment. Sorry it landed that way. I was complementing Macca on his pics and was commenting on Mike(inCA)'s comment. I guess I need to be more careful.
04-01-2014, 10:32 PM
#3569
Burning Brakes
I'm not sure I believe this. Doesn't make any sense. I have seen various lift optioned cars at dealers and they are many times raised during delivery/shipment. They appear to remain lifted while sitting in the showroom until they are taken out of "delivery mode". I would assume ride height to be identical regardless of lift.
