To PCCB or NOT on 911 GT3
10-12-2013, 10:53 AM
#17
Main advantage of PCCB over steel is when driving at Autobahn speeds. Rotors get very cold very fast at 200kph+ in short order particularly on cooler days. When you need brake and they are cold or even freezing, there is little to no initial "bite" when the brake pedal is first depressed on steel. Initial bite at those speeds on PCCB is very confidence inspiring in comparison. If you drive the A's there is no comparison in performance and they are well worth the extra money however I would not spend any time on track with them lest they burn up on you.
10-12-2013, 11:33 AM
#18
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FYI, just be aware of a "major" issue with new PCCB: http://teamspeed.com/forums/gt/80406...ing-off-3.html
10-12-2013, 11:53 AM
#19
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THanks very much for all your comments - I guess you are about to save me 10,000 dollars.
As I stated above, I have never used Porsche Steel Calipers and my Turbo PCCB's brake way better than the competition.
I will change my order to steel brakes BUT if anyone has used both Steel and PCCB and if they can comment if they find a difference in braking and feel - I would like to know.
The proof is in the pudding instead of marketing jargon...
Thanks again.
As I stated above, I have never used Porsche Steel Calipers and my Turbo PCCB's brake way better than the competition.
I will change my order to steel brakes BUT if anyone has used both Steel and PCCB and if they can comment if they find a difference in braking and feel - I would like to know.
The proof is in the pudding instead of marketing jargon...
Thanks again.
10-12-2013, 01:14 PM
#20
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I decided against PCCB's though many of my friends that have them love them. Porsche steel brakes are more than adequate for the type of driving we all will do.
The benefits of PCCB's basically involve two areas. The have a better initial bite which some find more comforting AND they do last about four times long than steel. BTW, the so called weight advantage is a bogus claim. PCCB's because of their size weigh almost the same as steel.
The downside is replacing PCCB's is about $20-25,000 compared to $2000 for steel. Also, PCCB's are not track worthy regardless of what some claim AND much more susceptible to being damaged even during regular maintenance like changing a tire.
The benefits of PCCB's basically involve two areas. The have a better initial bite which some find more comforting AND they do last about four times long than steel. BTW, the so called weight advantage is a bogus claim. PCCB's because of their size weigh almost the same as steel.
The downside is replacing PCCB's is about $20-25,000 compared to $2000 for steel. Also, PCCB's are not track worthy regardless of what some claim AND much more susceptible to being damaged even during regular maintenance like changing a tire.
10-12-2013, 02:02 PM
#21
Race Director
FYI, just be aware of a "major" issue with new PCCB: http://teamspeed.com/forums/gt/80406...ing-off-3.html
I decided against PCCB's though many of my friends that have them love them. Porsche steel brakes are more than adequate for the type of driving we all will do.
The benefits of PCCB's basically involve two areas. The have a better initial bite which some find more comforting AND they do last about four times long than steel. BTW, the so called weight advantage is a bogus claim. PCCB's because of their size weigh almost the same as steel.
The benefits of PCCB's basically involve two areas. The have a better initial bite which some find more comforting AND they do last about four times long than steel. BTW, the so called weight advantage is a bogus claim. PCCB's because of their size weigh almost the same as steel.
Sure, bling is part of the equation. Those giant platters look great behind the new wheels. I passed on the $3200 LED's because the standard bi-xenons are perfectly adequate, so I get the argument about passing on the PCCB's. I just wanted them anyway.
Last edited by Mike in CA; 10-12-2013 at 05:04 PM.
10-12-2013, 02:08 PM
#22
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Just do it. Cosmetically and Resale wise, they rock, and their INITIAL bite is absolutely tremendous...this is why people think they brake better...and honestly for the road its pretty nice. I didnt even have to think about it when order time came up. Front axel lift is an actual discussion though...
10-12-2013, 02:11 PM
#23
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I loved them in my 997S. I drove steel back to back with pccb and the pccb car felt more lively and initial bite was clearly better. They way they engaged, to me, was more confidence inspiring.
However that was on early 997.1's, not a 991 GT3 so who knows. Pad compositions, rotor materials, brake bias and other setup parameter change over time. So the comparo might be worthless.
The feeling of liveliness could, of course be a placebo effect. But the initial bite was unmistakable. I would not get them on a tracked car, but would in a heartbeat in a street car, cost be damned.
However that was on early 997.1's, not a 991 GT3 so who knows. Pad compositions, rotor materials, brake bias and other setup parameter change over time. So the comparo might be worthless.
The feeling of liveliness could, of course be a placebo effect. But the initial bite was unmistakable. I would not get them on a tracked car, but would in a heartbeat in a street car, cost be damned.
10-12-2013, 07:01 PM
#24
Race Director
Wait, so these aren't $9k to replace, they're $20-$25k?!?!?!? Wow, I had no idea, newbie shock moment. That basically removes any doubt, I'm going iron for mine. I was thinking ab doing a complete performance spec, saving money on all the leather interior junk, and just getting pccb and front lift (and black headlights :-). ). But I can't imagine ever having to spend the price of a nice small car on brakes.
So, when buying a used gt3 with ceramics, this is a major consideration huh?... How do you know that whatever track days haven't compromised the rotors And the owner is selling just to save himself a $25k bill?
No brake dust and big platters would have been nice.. Sigh.. Note to self, Must make exponentially more money.. Linear increases just aren't hacking it :-)
So, when buying a used gt3 with ceramics, this is a major consideration huh?... How do you know that whatever track days haven't compromised the rotors And the owner is selling just to save himself a $25k bill?
No brake dust and big platters would have been nice.. Sigh.. Note to self, Must make exponentially more money.. Linear increases just aren't hacking it :-)
10-12-2013, 07:08 PM
#25
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I think Porsche marketing has really tainted some people, and we are seeing the placebo affect on people who buy into PCCBs.
It makes zero sense to me why a PCCB equipped car would stop better or 'feel better' than a car with iron rotors doing silly panic stops on public roads. Someone please explain this to me.
The benefit of PCCB is lightweight and heat/fade resistance. That is all. The don't stop any better. They don't last much longer than iron rotors if tracked.
My spyder had better pedal feel and stopped quicker AFTER I removed the PCCB rotors and switched to iron. WTH? Why? Because I was able to run track compound pads, and wasn't held hostage to only OEM pads on PCCB. I can tell you the car accelerates, brakes, and handles just as well with the iron rotor setup.
The ONLY reason I can see getting PCCB is that the larger caliper and rotors you get have a larger heat capacity. If the standard calipers and iron rotors that are smaller are insufficient for heavy track use (unlikely on a GT3), then getting PCCB and immediately removing the rotors and switching to iron is the answer (unless you're ok with paying $20k to replace the rotors). If you want it for the bling/novelty, that's cool too.
My friend attended the PSDS in Alabama where he was told that they NEVER have to replace the PCCB rotors used in their fleet of cars. He ordered a PCCB car based on this info coming for Porsche representatives. His PCCB rotors went on to wear out after only a few track days, which was followed by a letter from Porsche telling him that PCCB will wear out if tracked.
Marketing.
It makes zero sense to me why a PCCB equipped car would stop better or 'feel better' than a car with iron rotors doing silly panic stops on public roads. Someone please explain this to me.
The benefit of PCCB is lightweight and heat/fade resistance. That is all. The don't stop any better. They don't last much longer than iron rotors if tracked.
My spyder had better pedal feel and stopped quicker AFTER I removed the PCCB rotors and switched to iron. WTH? Why? Because I was able to run track compound pads, and wasn't held hostage to only OEM pads on PCCB. I can tell you the car accelerates, brakes, and handles just as well with the iron rotor setup.
The ONLY reason I can see getting PCCB is that the larger caliper and rotors you get have a larger heat capacity. If the standard calipers and iron rotors that are smaller are insufficient for heavy track use (unlikely on a GT3), then getting PCCB and immediately removing the rotors and switching to iron is the answer (unless you're ok with paying $20k to replace the rotors). If you want it for the bling/novelty, that's cool too.
My friend attended the PSDS in Alabama where he was told that they NEVER have to replace the PCCB rotors used in their fleet of cars. He ordered a PCCB car based on this info coming for Porsche representatives. His PCCB rotors went on to wear out after only a few track days, which was followed by a letter from Porsche telling him that PCCB will wear out if tracked.
Marketing.
10-12-2013, 08:19 PM
#26
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PCCBs make a lot of sense on the Autobahn and Nurburgring, not only the initial bite, but fade resistance when braking hard frequently from well into triple digits. Not so much here in the US.
PCCB rotors are indeed lighter, but the larger calipers are heavier, as will be the larger iron rotors if you ever replace your PCCB rotors. So the weight-saving argument is a thin one.
10-12-2013, 08:36 PM
#27
I had steel brakes on my 991 C2S and found them to be excellent. In a couple of situations where I thought that an accident was inevitable, they responded so effectively beyond expectations that I completely avoided danger. Very competent brakes indeed.
Now I have ceramics on my 458 and find that I have to apply a lot more pressure on the pedal to get results and I can't really say that they are any superior in results. So unless you have an aversion to brake dust, which steel brakes generate a lot of, I don't think Pccbs are worth the price as an option. However, when they are a standard on a vehicle i.e. turbo S, I would just go with the flow.
Now I have ceramics on my 458 and find that I have to apply a lot more pressure on the pedal to get results and I can't really say that they are any superior in results. So unless you have an aversion to brake dust, which steel brakes generate a lot of, I don't think Pccbs are worth the price as an option. However, when they are a standard on a vehicle i.e. turbo S, I would just go with the flow.
10-12-2013, 08:44 PM
#28
Race Director
I had steel brakes on my 991 C2S and found them to be excellent. In a couple of situations where I thought that an accident was inevitable, they responded so effectively beyond expectations that I completely avoided danger. Very competent brakes indeed.
Now I have ceramics on my 458 and find that I have to apply a lot more pressure on the pedal to get results and I can't really say that they are any superior in results. So unless you have an aversion to brake dust, which steel brakes generate a lot of, I don't think Pccbs are worth the price as an option. However, when they are a standard on a vehicle i.e. turbo S, I would just go with the flow.
Now I have ceramics on my 458 and find that I have to apply a lot more pressure on the pedal to get results and I can't really say that they are any superior in results. So unless you have an aversion to brake dust, which steel brakes generate a lot of, I don't think Pccbs are worth the price as an option. However, when they are a standard on a vehicle i.e. turbo S, I would just go with the flow.
10-12-2013, 08:50 PM
#29
FWIW, I've read the new PCCB's designed for the 918 and offered now on the GT3 have excellent initial bite and don't require excess pedal pressure. Based on your description of the ceramics on the 458, it sounds like the new Porsche brakes may be superior to the Ferrari's.
But both brands use brembo if I am not mistaken.
Last edited by aamersa; 10-12-2013 at 09:05 PM.
10-12-2013, 09:41 PM
#30
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I didnt read all the posts. No need too. I have raced Porsche's on steel brakes for 10 years. The ceramics are great, but not necessary for a street car. People buy them simply for resale value. All my cars have steel brakes.