To PCCB or NOT on 911 GT3
10-24-2013, 08:42 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
^ This just doesn't make sense. Charge a 9k premium for better, larger, longer lasting rotors, that are much improved over the last generation, yet offer an option for the track on a car that is not "supposed" to be used on a track. Whats the surcharge for oversized steels? 3-4K
10-24-2013, 10:16 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
What you say about shimming the PCCB rotors for use with the standard cast iron GT3 rotors may be true. But there was also a reference reported in an earlier thread (from a magazine article IIRC) that said Porsche would make available cast iron rotors in the 410/390mm size for those PCCB owners who tracked heavily and wanted an option. Maybe someone else here remembers exactly where that came from.
10-24-2013, 11:07 PM
#63
Nordschleife Master
I'm going to pick at some old wounds and share some of my photos:
This is my buddy's 997.2 TTS rear PCCB rotor after 4 track days. Notice the wear indicators are fully visible (dark circles) and the surface of the rotor delaminating. This rotor is DONE. Full disclosure: Yes, the car has PTV and traction control was on. Therefore, the rear rotors were getting a beating. That being said, even so, you'd think it would last more than only 4 track days.
This is the FRONT PCCB rotor on my boxster spyder after 5 track days. This is using OEM pads only, and swapping pads to brand new pads when they were worn 1/2 way. Notice the wear indicator starting to show already. At this point, I knew it wouldn't be much longer on these rotors, so I pulled them off, boxed the PCCB, and switched to iron brembos. Not a single regret.
There you have it. My personal pictures, my personal experience. No heresay or urban legend. Remember, the 991 GT3 has PTV standard. I'm sure Porsche has improved the PCCB design so it will last a bit longer, but it's not going to be anything game changing. Why else would they even mention offering 410mm steels for people who track?
Since Movit is selling CCB rotors that are compatible with OEM calipers, I'd say this is the better way to go. You'll probably spend similar money optioning PCCB and swapping to iron, but at least the Movit option will last forever (supposedly)
This is my buddy's 997.2 TTS rear PCCB rotor after 4 track days. Notice the wear indicators are fully visible (dark circles) and the surface of the rotor delaminating. This rotor is DONE. Full disclosure: Yes, the car has PTV and traction control was on. Therefore, the rear rotors were getting a beating. That being said, even so, you'd think it would last more than only 4 track days.
This is the FRONT PCCB rotor on my boxster spyder after 5 track days. This is using OEM pads only, and swapping pads to brand new pads when they were worn 1/2 way. Notice the wear indicator starting to show already. At this point, I knew it wouldn't be much longer on these rotors, so I pulled them off, boxed the PCCB, and switched to iron brembos. Not a single regret.
There you have it. My personal pictures, my personal experience. No heresay or urban legend. Remember, the 991 GT3 has PTV standard. I'm sure Porsche has improved the PCCB design so it will last a bit longer, but it's not going to be anything game changing. Why else would they even mention offering 410mm steels for people who track?
Since Movit is selling CCB rotors that are compatible with OEM calipers, I'd say this is the better way to go. You'll probably spend similar money optioning PCCB and swapping to iron, but at least the Movit option will last forever (supposedly)
10-24-2013, 11:12 PM
#64
and there you have it...
10-24-2013, 11:22 PM
#65
1st Gear
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What you say about shimming the PCCB rotors for use with the standard cast iron GT3 rotors may be true. But there was also a reference reported in an earlier thread (from a magazine article IIRC) that said Porsche would make available cast iron rotors in the 410/390mm size for those PCCB owners who tracked heavily and wanted an option. Maybe someone else here remembers exactly where that came from.
I've been kibitzing for awhile..... scanning forums and reading reviews of the 991 GT3. So far I like what I've read.
I'm still on the fence though, whether or not to spend 175 K CDN for what will be my first Porsche.
10-24-2013, 11:29 PM
#66
Nordschleife Master
^That's the article
This is all the info you need to realize that the new PCCB design still isn't up to snuff for real track use. Parade laps, newbie laps, and for guys that drive 'flatout'.... maybe. 
Brakes:
Andreas Preuninger, head of the GT3 program at Porsche, told us that the PCCB carbon ceramic brake setup is the most important option to add to the car. These brakes bump the front rotor size from 380 mm to 410 mm -- and the parts are shared with the 918 Spyder. The increased steering precision and damper control due to the near-40 pounds savings in unsprung weight easily justifies the $9210 cost, in the opinion of Preuninger. Additionally, the PCCB setup has excellent wear characteristics on the road. Still, PCCB components wear at about the same rate as the standard steel setup during heavy track use. The high cost of PCCB pad and rotor replacement is a matter of consideration for a small number of Porsche owners. Due to this, Porsche offers a unique steel rotor and a brake pad setup for PCCB-optioned cars, available through the parts department at Porsche dealerships. Owners can then fit this steel setup to their GT3 for track days, helping keep the costs of wear items in check. Again, this setup is for owners who drive their cars very hard at the track and on a regular basis. Most owners do not need to bother with this setup but the option is there for the few that do. It's impressive that Porsche thinks about details like this.
Andreas Preuninger, head of the GT3 program at Porsche, told us that the PCCB carbon ceramic brake setup is the most important option to add to the car. These brakes bump the front rotor size from 380 mm to 410 mm -- and the parts are shared with the 918 Spyder. The increased steering precision and damper control due to the near-40 pounds savings in unsprung weight easily justifies the $9210 cost, in the opinion of Preuninger. Additionally, the PCCB setup has excellent wear characteristics on the road. Still, PCCB components wear at about the same rate as the standard steel setup during heavy track use. The high cost of PCCB pad and rotor replacement is a matter of consideration for a small number of Porsche owners. Due to this, Porsche offers a unique steel rotor and a brake pad setup for PCCB-optioned cars, available through the parts department at Porsche dealerships. Owners can then fit this steel setup to their GT3 for track days, helping keep the costs of wear items in check. Again, this setup is for owners who drive their cars very hard at the track and on a regular basis. Most owners do not need to bother with this setup but the option is there for the few that do. It's impressive that Porsche thinks about details like this.
10-24-2013, 11:30 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...gt3/specs.html
I've been kibitzing for awhile..... scanning forums and reading reviews of the 991 GT3. So far I like what I've read.
I'm still on the fence though, whether or not to spend 175 K CDN for what will be my first Porsche.
I've been kibitzing for awhile..... scanning forums and reading reviews of the 991 GT3. So far I like what I've read.
I'm still on the fence though, whether or not to spend 175 K CDN for what will be my first Porsche.
if you are debating between a 911 or GT3, the GT3 is an amazing deal.
If you order all the performance options on a 911, PDK, sports chrono, and the powerkit, etc, it comes to the same price, and you don't have the superior steering feel, RWS, 475 HP, and handling of the GT3.
IF you're on the fence, and looking at a Cayman, then it's a different matter.
For me it would be a cayman S or GT3, regular 911 doesn't interest me and isn't that good of a deal.
10-24-2013, 11:49 PM
#68
Race Director
There isn't a right or wrong here. As with anything else, it depends on how you intend to use the car. For some people PCCB's are an attractive option, for others they aren't.
10-25-2013, 12:09 AM
#69
Burning Brakes
^ Agreed I fortunately learned from Joe and went to steels before the PCCB's saw the track. My car is a dual purpose car, track time and garage time. Knowing the lack of longevity of PCCB I'd probably order them anyway because I like knowing I have 15k sitting in my attic
I'm really curious to the design and costs of the OEM steel replacements.
I'm really curious to the design and costs of the OEM steel replacements.
10-25-2013, 12:42 AM
#70
Nordschleife Master
Too rich for me either way. I'm sticking with 380mm irons.
10-25-2013, 02:08 AM
#71
Race Director
My prediction is that they won't be available until 1-2 years from now. Just enough time for you to destroy a set of PCCBs at the track. At that point you'll have the option of buying replacement PCCB for $20k, or OEM iron rotors for $10k.
Too rich for me either way. I'm sticking with 380mm irons.
Too rich for me either way. I'm sticking with 380mm irons.
10-25-2013, 02:15 AM
#72
I'm sure PFC will sell some for a reasonable price.
10-25-2013, 02:25 AM
#74
Nordschleife Master
You're right. Someone will. Whether it be girodisc, PFC, or brembo. 410mm sizes are a new frontier. It will take some time before they are released. In the meantime, I have no desire to burn up PCCB rotors at the track when my bet is that 380mm rotors are sufficient enough.
10-25-2013, 03:09 AM
#75
Race Director
Perhaps $10k is an exaggeration, but I can guarantee it won't be $2k. Remember, that $2k isn't for PCCB sized rotors. They don't offer PCCB sized steel rotors from the factory yet for any GT3 model in the front. This will be a 'new and special' thing. We all know what 'new and special' means on the pocket book.