It is very strange this story about the seats. Me thinks it has something to do with homologation or US specific safety laws.

I guess your chances are slim if it is down to homologation. Porsche would not sell you a car that is not street legal.

 

More speculation: these seats will never be certified in the US for the 991 because new and improved racing buckets are coming with the new RS and those will be certified across the 991 range at that time- just like the GT2 seats were certified when they released with the GT2. PCNA would like everyone to know that but can't, for risk of slowing sales down for the newest GT3.

 

Yes, not impossible. It however raises the question why it is so hard to homologate seats in the US?

 

Although I was not planning to add bucket seats to my configuration, I think it's borderline unacceptable not to offer them on GT3.

My plan was to order the regular seats and then retrofit the driver's seat so that I could have racing bucket in the driver's side and more everyday friendly seat on the passenger side. I do not take passengers much on the track anyway, and having a more comfortable passenger seat makes the car more frequently used outside of the track.

The problem is that I cannot find anyone selling one GT2-type seat. Is that even possible to find? if not, what would be other options, ideally those that would be insurance-friendly?

 

It is not borderline unacceptable, it is unacceptable. I guess the same applies for the clubsport package.

 

Yes, there are!

No, I personally don't think it's the certification.

Zero, I would guess.

Yes, that speculation is what we do in this forum and I think Rennlisters, as a whole, are frankly damn good at it! 911Slow's thread on the new gt3 has 1,470 replies and over 103,173 in a few weeks. That is a epic thread...and you will not find this kind of critical analysis anywhere else in the internet forums! I find it surprising that even Rennteam has become 'fanboyish' & apologetic re: legitimate complaints raised regarding CL failures & other issues with past gt3's!

Re: the gt2 type seats and why they are not on the US 991 gt3.
Here is further speculation and my dos centavos. I posted this yesterday in another thread on this very forum and perhaps it's worth reposting here:

"A Two Parts Story!

If you make a similar study of what seats were ordered by customers vs dealer (for spec inventory) on the .2 gt3's and even some .2 gt3 RS, you will find the same degree of dealer bias in favor of ordering the more comfortable 'sport seats' rather than the gt2 sport buckets! That is PART of the bigger story here! The US dealer network has played (in my opinion) a major role in convincing PCNA not to allow the gt2 seats to be offered on the 991 gt3!

BUT PCNA was easily convinced not to offer gt2 sport buckets seats on the 991 gt3 because they (and their lawyers) want to see LESS 991 gt3's at the track than more. That is the SECOND part of this story. Not having the proper seat is an obstacle and gives them some legal cover ('not intended to be taken to the track'), a sort of unsigned waiver! Most 991 gt3's that are going to be used hard at the track will need to change seats and the lawyers think this 'extra step' will help them down the road should a legal case surface. The reason for this 'shift' is due to the real issues that recent .1 & .2 gt3's have suffered under intense track usage (CL, faulty hoses, etc). The fact is that our US laws offer more protection of the customer (and injured parties) than in other world market. So any adverse gt3 incidents here (e.g. deaths caused by fault of the car) will have real legal & financial consequences for PAG and PCNA in our US jurisdiction!

This is a major 'shift' in marketing and reality for the 991 gt3 in the US and it will have major consequences for our hobby here! I think PAG is hoping that the upcoming 991 gt3 RS will be bullet-proof and thus be designated as the proper 'track' car for the US enthusiasts. That is the model they will want to 'push' us to use on the track as 'amateurs'. That is what the PCNA's lawyers are praying will happen! We will see. But 'caveat emptor'."

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...-rumors-2.html

Saludos,
Eduardo

 

Very interesting analysis Eduardo. However, two points which I don't get:

• How does the RS change the legal and financial consequences? PCNA could simply offer the bucket seats in the GT3 now and plaster a huge warning sticker on them.
• If people are seriously injured or killed because of faults with the car this will have serious financial and legal consequences in RoW too, not only US.

 

You can get them from Suncoast Parts (http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...ode=9972s_seat Usually around $7K for the pair). Also, check the parts marketplace here. They come up pretty often.

 

Swapped out the front seat (yes single) on my 996C4S with a GT3 bucket...sourced it from Gert at Carnewal.....and imported it into the States....rather easy at the time (2005)...

Gert is now offering a range of GT2 seat options (leather/alcantara/nomex)....under his 997 seat catalogue....might be worth contacting him to validate fitment to the 991.

cf: http://www.carnewal.com/

(no affiliation...other than a satisfied customer)

 

Thanks, I'll get in touch with them when the time comes. Suncoast is only selling two seats as a set, it seems. One seat should come to around $3500, which is not too bad.

 

1) How does the RS change the legal and financial consequences?

I believe Porsche hopes to make modifications on the upcoming 991 gt3 RS that will put to rest their fears of catastrophic failures on the CL, etc. that could lead to accidents where they might be help responsible. That is what I meant by 'the upcoming 991 gt3 RS will be bullet-proof and thus be designated as the proper 'track' car for the US enthusiasts' in my original post. My guess is that Porsche is not yet confident enough that all the 'improved' components on the base 991 gt3 will past the test of extended recreational track use (not racing) by their customers. That is why they are orienting this particular 991 gt3 model initially towards mostly 'street use' in America!

They have around one year to keep testing components destined for the 991 gt3 RS. And if necessary, they can make improvements to the 991 RS specs and feel more confident that they can 'allow' that model to be used for recreational use at the track for their US customers. Should PCNA (and their lawyers) lose confidence in the RS's ability to be used for US track purposes and thus NOT offer an approved air-bag sport bucket on that model for the US, this would be a monumental marketing & public relations calamity for PCNA! So I expect to see proper, US dot approved sport buckets in the US 991 gt3 RS at its US introduction next year!

2) PCNA could simply offer the bucket seats in the GT3 now and plaster a huge warning sticker on them!

The lawyers have apparently told them that just the 'sticker' might not be enough to get them out of trouble should the 'issues' (e.g. CL failure) reappear on extended track use! So they are being 'pro-active' by NOT offering anything that 'encourages' someone to take their 991 gt3 to the track! Maybe some of you might consider this an unimportant difference. But they are apparently following logic based on precedents based on US case law!

3) If people are seriously injured or killed because of faults with the car this will have serious financial and legal consequences in RoW too, not only US.

The public relations consequences are the same for Porsche if it happens here or anywhere else in the world! But the legal & financial consequences are not! American tort law is quite developed (and some would say 'nasty') and all companies doing business in the United States are intimidated by it! I believe German laws are less onerous & more understanding of corporations whose products, unintentionally, harm consumers via defects. That is especially true relating to auto manufacturers which are such an important & influential sector of the German economy. Same is true perhaps in many other European countries. But in many parts of the world, this sort of liability is not a major concern for corporations. Personally, we need tort law reform in this country to avoid the rampant abuses...but that is a different subject. But part of what we are suffering here -- re: gt2 seats on this gt3 model in the US -- are the consequences of our stringent liability laws - some which are proper & of value to our society!

But keep this in mind. This is mostly a Porsche self-inflicted wound! There was no vociferous consumer demand for CL's that forced Porsche to offer this particular unproven version of that technology (vs what is offered on CUP) on their .2 997 gt3's & GTS!

Saludos,
Eduardo

 

I think your calculation is a little off, the seat option would proberbly come out between $ 3000 and $ 3900 if it was offered
If it is not offered you would have to pay $ 6800 + shipping, plus whatever it will cost to make it work and not throw any codes

So it will at least cost you $ 3k to $ 4k more, plus you will have to store the seats that came with the car.
As for ROW, the seat upgrade price includes the Club Sport package if you so choose to at 0 cost (that would run us in the States another $ 4k including install ?), if we can get the CS parts that is

Mike

 

That's because my calculations are with Alcantara full leather interior option and yours without...

 

Sorry but that would be an additional $ 3320 in the States, so that would not help the difference calculation IMO

With or without the full leather the difference would still be as per my calculation

Mike

 

Mike2727 is right. It's going to be more of pain (in the neck and the wallet) than you think. Take it from somebody who has first hand experience on the pain of retrofitting the proper seats to a car that was incorrectly configured. We are still speculating whether the suncoast seats are even compatible.