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Smart people have been calling for a recession for the better half of a decade. Real economists. Of course one will come at some point, but you could be dead by then as well.
I wasnt referring to recession. If recession happens, it will even be better for prices going even lower. I am referring to the current climate with high rates continuing just for a few more months will start hurting these dealers more. Weaker ones that dont have excess cash will be desperate.
I wasnt referring to recession. If recession happens, it will even be better for prices going even lower. I am referring to the current climate with high rates continuing just for a few more months will start hurting these dealers more. Weaker ones that dont have excess cash will be desperate.
If a recession happens, that means people all over the USA and possibly globally will suffer. If that is what it takes to purchase a car at better prices, no thank you
If a recession happens, that means people all over the USA and possibly globally will suffer. If that is what it takes to purchase a car at better prices, no thank you
Enjoy your car in good health
Again, let me repeat, I wasn't suggesting we need recession for a favorable buyer market. Simply maintaining the current status quo for a few months will be enough. These rates are extremely high for luxury goods market, sports cars and boats being at the top of that food chain that gets hurt the most. Fed will NOT lower the rates this year. They may or may not increase it more. We are going to be in this environment of extremely expensive credit for a long time. This is very bad news for highly inflated car market that used "cheap money" to fund the extra markup these past 2-3 years. It isn't some theory. I have a pretty extensive network of GMs and GSMs across many brands in all over the country. They are all saying similar things (and what they are saying is bad stuff). I am taking what I hear from them and combining with economical facts that is publicly available for anyone to digest.
Obviously if you lack even the most basic mathematical skills (i.e. we could see how no one other than me and another member could understand linear algebra in that other thread in 992 sub forum) you may be a bit clueless, too bad in that case. Should have invested a bit more time in basic mathematics.
Again, let me repeat, I wasn't suggesting we need recession for a favorable buyer market. Simply maintaining the current status quo for a few months will be enough. These rates are extremely high for luxury goods market, sports cars and boats being at the top of that food chain that gets hurt the most. Fed will NOT lower the rates this year. They may or may not increase it more. We are going to be in this environment of extremely expensive credit for a long time. This is very bad news for highly inflated car market that used "cheap money" to fund the extra markup these past 2-3 years. It isn't some theory. I have a pretty extensive network of GMs and GSMs across many brands in all over the country. They are all saying similar things (and what they are saying is bad stuff). I am taking what I hear from them and combining with economical facts that is publicly available for anyone to digest.
Obviously if you lack even the most basic mathematical skills (i.e. we could see how no one other than me and another member could understand linear algebra in that other thread in 992 sub forum) you may be a bit clueless, too bad in that case. Should have invested a bit more time in basic mathematics.
That isnt what we are seeing whatsoever - this economic condition is hammering the lower and middle class (as evidenced by purchase behaviors and prices of cheaper things vs price escalation on expensive things - handful of recent consumer surveys out on this topic). The forward yield curve suggests you are wrong above and they will lower the rates about 200BPS in the next year - if you are so bullish above you can do a swap right this minute to align exactly with your position.
Expensive stuff is flying off the shelf - people with lots of coin don't use credit. I have sold 3 and bought 1 very expensive capital items in the last month - all were done with cash and quickly
Point is the buyer set of very expensive stuff is still much more wealthy (as a demographic) than they were pre covid.
Rates are still below long term averages / they are just positive instead of negative real rates
This thread isnt about this stuff - but you either are (a) not aware of the large financial markets and just spouting opinions, or (b) have a bet that differs from the street.
A. Please stop
B. Good luck on the bet, if it strikes you will do well and that is awesome
In any of these circumstances I want to get alerts on this thread about actionable GT3 trades - not someones view on macro.
Source: Guy who wants a 991 GT3 RS at 30% off MSRP, but will end up paying over to own one this year
Double PS - with GM relationships pls get me a GT3RS 992 at MSRP
That isnt what we are seeing whatsoever - this economic condition is hammering the lower and middle class (as evidenced by purchase behaviors and prices of cheaper things see recent studies on this inc. McKinsey). The forward yield curve suggests you are wrong above and they will lower the rates about 200BPS in the next year - if you are so bullish above you can do a swap right this minute to align exactly with your position.
Expensive stuff is flying off the shelf - people with lots of coin don't use credit. I have sold 3 and bought 1 very expensive capital items in the last month - all were done with cash and quickly
Point is the buyer set of very expensive stuff is still much more wealthy (as a demographic) than they were pre covid.
Rates are still below long term averages / they are just positive instead of negative real rates
This thread isnt about this stuff - but you either are (a) not aware of the large financial markets and just spouting opinions, or (b) have a bet that differs from the street. In any of these circumstances I want to get alerts on this thread about actionable GT3 trades - not someones view on macro.
A. Please stop
B. Good luck on the bet, if it strikes you will do well and that is awesome
Source: Guy who does this stuff for a living and a guy who would be thrilled to buy a cheap GT3 and dreams of the day that it happens, but certainly isnt planning to see it in the near future
Thanks
I have done very well (car wise) in terms of buying low and selling high as I was able to time my purchases correctly. What I was able to achieve with the timing of these purchases in the last 7-8 years, I saved enough money to be able to afford an extra car. Disclaimer : I don't need to time my purchases to buy these cars. I am not trying to brag but I could probably buy half of the GT3s for sale in cash and still retire on time with plenty of remaining cash. I would just get super annoyed paying a "premium" for something like a car and I know the prices are inflated not just because these cars are awesome (they are), but because speculators drove their prices way high. I also enjoy shopping for these cars, its part of the fun. Some people have the view that time is of the essence and they want to absolutely minimize the amount of time they spend thinking about buying things. So they go and buy the house, the boat, the car they want at market prices. I'm not in that camp. I think in developed countries the profit margins are massive and why make someone rich easy? I enjoy negotiating and the back and forth.
I have done very well (car wise) in terms of buying low and selling high as I was able to time my purchases correctly. What I was able to achieve with the timing of these purchases in the last 7-8 years, I saved enough money to be able to afford an extra car. Disclaimer : I don't need to time my purchases to buy these cars. I am not trying to brag but I could probably buy half of the GT3s for sale in cash and still retire on time with plenty of remaining cash. I would just get super annoyed paying a "premium" for something like a car and I know the prices are inflated not just because these cars are awesome (they are), but because speculators drove their prices way high. I also enjoy shopping for these cars, its part of the fun. Some people have the view that time is of the essence and they want to absolutely minimize the amount of time they spend thinking about buying things. So they go and buy the house, the boat, the car they want at market prices. I'm not in that camp. I think in developed countries the profit margins are massive and why make someone rich easy? I enjoy negotiating and the back and forth.
All that is well and good - I bought a brand new subaru off the lot down the road for my nanny and then sold it 2 years later to lexus dealer when she left for more than I paid for it.... negative real rates do weird things to asset prices. EVERYONE has done very well buying and selling cars since 2015 or so for this reason.
Use that cash and buy a swap - Goldman will sell them to you and min position likely around your quoted GT3 purchase capacity. They will be on the other side of that trade. GSAM has ability to do this I believe. I was looking at an institutional swap for a larger sum earlier this week.
Now pls find me a chalk WP 991.2 RS near MSRP and then if/when market collapses and in that world I need to sell desperately Ill sell to you for little to nothing!
Exactly my point. Everyone has an opinion on what the economy is going to do. This thread is meant for talking about cars for sale and some can’t help but give their macro-economic opinions instead.
Curious the mention on changed gauge cluster, can you provide more details? Thanks
Gauge cluster looks to be replaced. Doesn't look OEM at all. KPH to MPH change by some import company I imagine. Not sure why they would use that particular cluster, but they did. Part of why Canadian cars sold in the US are less $$.
I'm the second owner of a 2018 GT3 winged, PTS, manual, buckets, FAL, CPO, 40xx mile, car that is sitting in my garage and I haven't had the gonads to take it to the track where it belongs. I've discovered cycling and it's consuming all my time instead.
No idea what I'd replace this car with that is better, but putting 10 miles or so on it a week seems like an egregious waste of a flawless car.
Is now a good time to sell and, if so, what's the recommended avenue to it that doesn't involve having to deal with tire kickers and story tellers?
I'm the second owner of a 2018 GT3 winged, PTS, manual, buckets, FAL, CPO, 40xx mile, car that is sitting in my garage and I haven't had the gonads to take it to the track where it belongs. I've discovered cycling and it's consuming all my time instead.
No idea what I'd replace this car with that is better, but putting 10 miles or so on it a week seems like an egregious waste of a flawless car.
Is now a good time to sell and, if so, what's the recommended avenue to it that doesn't involve having to deal with tire kickers and story tellers?
6-12 months ago was the best time to sell it. Rennlist classifieds marketplace is a good place to sell it.
I'm the second owner of a 2018 GT3 winged, PTS, manual, buckets, FAL, CPO, 40xx mile, car that is sitting in my garage and I haven't had the gonads to take it to the track where it belongs. I've discovered cycling and it's consuming all my time instead.
No idea what I'd replace this car with that is better, but putting 10 miles or so on it a week seems like an egregious waste of a flawless car.
Is now a good time to sell and, if so, what's the recommended avenue to it that doesn't involve having to deal with tire kickers and story tellers?
We're just entering the driving season. Now is a great time to sell. It's not at its peak but it's not far off. If it's a good optioned car with no stories, well maintained etc you won't have an issue. I sold mine on Autotrader, msrp was $204K and sold for $225K just a couple months ago.
You won't find as many tire kickers from placing your ad on autotrader as you will right here in this thread. If you want to hear bitchin' and moanin' just go ahead and subscribe to this thread....
Is now a good time to sell and, if so, what's the recommended avenue to it that doesn't involve having to deal with tire kickers and story tellers?
Wouldn't list here or online auction. Cars.com, autotrader if you want to take the lead, but you'll probably still have to wade through some nonsense.
Would solicit offers from dealers in markets where there's more buying & selling than hedging. Could also entertain consignment arrangements from the same. May end up even or better vs. private sale, and with more time for cycling.
Do you have a number in mind - a sales price that is your walk away from the car spot? Not meaning you share that on the thread but more the figure where you comfortably move on. If you can get that number, then the answer to your question is yes, it is a good time to sell.
You can purchase a membership here, and in 10 minutes provide enough detail for prospective buyers. I sold an RS on here last year without putting it in the marketplace. I put several pictures in this thread and enough detail about the car that answers the typical questions buyers ask, e.g., miles, maintenance, condition, options, etc. I was not overwhelmed by tire kickers and wasn't inconvenienced. Took less than $100 dollar investment and 1 hour of time to sell a car privately to another member on a transaction more than $200k. I had the title in hand and the buyer cash to buy. Car went from WA to FL.
As the seller you're in full control. I didn't find it difficult to discern between a serious inquiry. For most it comes down to price and ability to execute a smooth transaction. Might as well post a picture or two. I'm confident folks will reach out.
Originally Posted by Skullbussa
I'm the second owner of a 2018 GT3 winged, PTS, manual, buckets, FAL, CPO, 40xx mile, car that is sitting in my garage and I haven't had the gonads to take it to the track where it belongs. I've discovered cycling and it's consuming all my time instead.
No idea what I'd replace this car with that is better, but putting 10 miles or so on it a week seems like an egregious waste of a flawless car.
Is now a good time to sell and, if so, what's the recommended avenue to it that doesn't involve having to deal with tire kickers and story tellers?
@Skullbussa If you're a PCA member I'd suggest posting your car on the club's classifieds. Enthusiasts like to buy from other enthusiasts and the listing process is entirely painless.
05-15-2023, 10:40 AM
