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Can you explain why the 4S would have more grip than cup2 in dry street conditions?
It's all about the compounds of the tires and their optimal operating temps. A Cup2/Race2 ideal temp is about 160-170 degrees, which is nearly impossible to achieve on the street. The compound of the 4S is designed to stick better at lower temps, however, if you achieved 160-170 degrees on the 4S, the tires would be useless, greasy and dangerous.
And its all relative to outside temps and road conditions, example, driving in the Los Angeles in August, the temps at 100 degrees, the Cup2/Race2 would work better.
You ever watch formula 1, they change compounds based on conditions and temps.
4S installed yesterday. They do seem more comfortable and less noisy than the cup2. Grip seems great as well and last night was getting pretty cold in the bay area.
What is everybody using for tire pressure on 4S on the street ? I used 29/33 cold on Cup2 and it worked well. The same pressure seems to give a much softer front tire with PS4S.
A little update,
Did a AutoCross on Saturday, it was DRY(!!) but morning temps were 38deg. Left the house in freezing fog, cold tire temp was 29/33, after driving for 30min, they were up to 33/38, outside temp was around 40.
On my first lap out, tires were cold, but I had ok grip, the front end was plowing quite a bit, but the back was kind of sticking, driving about 7/10ths (about 40deg outside). On my 4th run, tires were warm 33/38 and I had good grip, dropped 6sec from my first run, and the tires had a nice progressive let go. Still not totally pushing it.
On my 3rd run group (3 groups of 4runs each, so 12 total runs) it was 48deg out, bleed out some pressure to get around 31/35. Had solid grip, pushed the car, dropped another 2sec, now driving on the limits. Front end grip and turn in was not as good as Cups, but rear end felt way more planted and secure. In places where the rear would go out, it was sticking. Turn in was not as good, and even when warm, there was a little more understeer then on Cups. I put this down to tire pressure, and outside temp. Tires were warm to the touch, and were showing some abuse.
I was 3rd overall for the day, and first in class, a monster STI, and prepped Tesla beat me.
Obviously the Cups would not have worked today, and I'm very happy with the PS4S.
Just got my car back, shout out to Tyson's Porsche for the excellent service (price turned out to be cheaper than indie shop and with center locks and ceramic brakes I'd rather take it to the dealer).
First impression on the Pilot Sport 4S, they're soooo much quieter than the CUP2, softer ride and felt they provided a better grip. Temperature was 45F and I drove carefully due to the tires being brand new. I also saw the PSI going up faster than the CUP2 due to the softer compound, during winter months they just stayed at the cold temp PSI pretty much. Obviously we're talking street use, you can't get the CUP2 at the ideal temperature.
Just got my car back, first impression on the Pilot Sport 4S, they're soooo much quieter than the CUP2, softer ride and felt they provided a better grip. Temperature was 45F and I drove carefully due to the tires being brand new. I also saw the PSI going up faster than the CUP2 due to the softer compound, during winter months they just stayed at the cold temp PSI pretty much. Obviously we're talking street use, you can't get the CUP2 at the ideal temperature.
Just got my car back, shout out to Tyson's Porsche for the excellent service (price turned out to be cheaper than indie shop and with center locks and ceramic brakes I'd rather take it to the dealer).
First impression on the Pilot Sport 4S, they're soooo much quieter than the CUP2, softer ride and felt they provided a better grip. Temperature was 45F and I drove carefully due to the tires being brand new. I also saw the PSI going up faster than the CUP2 due to the softer compound, during winter months they just stayed at the cold temp PSI pretty much. Obviously we're talking street use, you can't get the CUP2 at the ideal temperature.
How would you compare turn in between the two tires? A lot of the reviews seem to indicate that you give up a bit of turn in with the 4S relative to the Cup 2s. Do you notice any difference?
It's all about the compounds of the tires and their optimal operating temps. A Cup2/Race2 ideal temp is about 160-170 degrees, which is nearly impossible to achieve on the street. The compound of the 4S is designed to stick better at lower temps, however, if you achieved 160-170 degrees on the 4S, the tires would be useless, greasy and dangerous.
And its all relative to outside temps and road conditions, example, driving in the Los Angeles in August, the temps at 100 degrees, the Cup2/Race2 would work better.
You ever watch formula 1, they change compounds based on conditions and temps.
Except this is a massive oversimplification. Just because the Cup 2 can't achieve full grip in most street conditions, doesn't mean it still doesn't offer more grip and better performance than the 4S at lower temperatures. At anything above 50 degrees F you'll probably still get equal or better grip and performance from the Cup 2 tire. The real advantage of the 4S above 50 degrees is comfort and wet weather performance.
I recall this same debate with motorcycle tires and the argument that DOT race tires were bad for the street because they rarely ever fully came in on the street, even though they still gripped better than most street sport tires in dry conditions even without fully heat cycling, and both turn in and stability were better. You didn't want to be on them in the rain, but in the dry, they were still the better performance option.
My interest in the 4S is for full wet weather performance, but I'm just not willing to give up much in terms of turn in and outright grip, given the generally temperate conditions here in California. I may get the chance to put a set on my M5 before I have to decide on the GT4 replacement tire.
How would you compare turn in between the two tires? A lot of the reviews seem to indicate that you give up a bit of turn in with the 4S relative to the Cup 2s. Do you notice any difference?
I drove very carefully on my way home and I haven't got a chance to break in the tires yet. But at low speeds they already feel grippier than the CUP2 at these temperatures. I had Dunlops on my .1 which were hockey pucks and scary under 45F, the CUP2 are so much better but ZERO control on wet.
I don't think you're loosing anything on the street with the 4S.
My main takeaways are:
softer sidewall.
Better ride
Less noise
Alot more grip.
I'm making about 480 lb-ft of torque with a stage 1 tune and before I was blowing off the tires in 2nd. Now even with a stock 275 size tire I can hook up all day. As a street tire they are pretty impressive.
Put my 5000-mile-old PS4S's on some new rims today. So far, they have been great tires - far exceeding my expectations for on-road driving. Even in the rain, they are predictable and have reasonable grip.
But... The inside shoulders are worn smooth - especially the fronts which look like they are close to showing cord. Some have said this is just normal for a car that is aligned for track use. Others have said, you need an alignment ASAP. Definitely planning on doing that either way...
In the middle, the fronts have 7/32" of tread left. Rears have 5/32". They started new with 9/32".
Just wondering how everyone else is doing with their 4S's wear-wise.
Front shoulder
Rear Shoulder
Last edited by RockyTopTenn; 11-16-2021 at 07:29 PM.
01-21-2021, 03:39 AM
