odurandina

Stolarzj,

while it is likely that a level of a moral flexibility may be allowed to flourish when there is money involved, this is not what is going on here... what is happening here may not be technically unlawful...

but then, there is the dirty, LOWDOWN theft of a person's ideas, research and development in order to make a lot of money.

in the automotive aftermarket industry, there is usually a very close relationship between the inventors and the public who will test their products and also the racing community... shameful situations such as what we are seeing here, don't seem to be common -- because if you get caught stealing someone's idea -- you are usually, dealt with very quickly by a community that polices itself... but this is not some product being developed for the Ford Mustang...

this is the Porsche 968, [at least for the moment, just the 968] -- and we have a situation on our hands where a parts reseller is using a public forum to operate a coverup of their immoral business practices.

in the case of the retail outlet that has STOLEN Carl's design, ask yourself this question: WHY NOW ??

creating a supercharger for racing, or a car for the street with it's ac removed is one thing... building a forced induction system to work with:

1. 100 % stock engine bay setup, 2. the air conditioner left running, 3. using a certain parts vendor, for the blower, 4. adding new injectors 5. creating a working model and a sequel,

and then having the entire design STOLEN during a very short time after, and then having such parts reseller block the free passing of information on a public forum in order to COVER their IMMORAL activities, is an entirely different matter.

it's as LOW as you can get in the automotive industry... its obvious that you either have an agenda or you have not been taught the difference between right and wrong. either way don't expect to make many friends here.

.

John Etnier

One important thing to keep in mind here: because the principals who stand accused are, AFAIK, banned from participation here, the possibility exists that they might, just might, have a valid countervailing argument against these accusations and we aren't hearing it.

NB: I'm saying this about a crew which shut me out of their forum for uttering the below-quoted "cowardly and reprehensible" "very serious abuse" "incredibly egregious action" and "libelous accusation" :

"OMFG"

So I hold no love for those guys. At all.

I do think this point needs to be made, though. I'm sure that they have worked out a way whereby they are not doing what they're accused of here. They can't present that rationalization here.

odurandina

this thread rocks.

Damian in NJ

From what I see the slight differences in the kits is a result of the modifications needed by not using the superior Raptor supercharger, which they were denied unless they wanted to buy from Carl, who is the US distributor.

They were so much in spin mode the big post there actually used punctuation!

rdhayward

From an old Blondie song, Rapture (yes, I had all of their albums and still have the Best of Blondie on CD):

Flash is fast, Flash is cool
Francois sez fas, Flashe' no do
And you don't stop, sure shot
Go out to the parking lot
And you get in your car and you drive real far
And you drive all night and then you see a light
And it comes right down and lands on the ground
And out comes a man from Mars

No doubt, this was about a Porsche web forum far into the future...

RolexNJ

Well, I think I need to put on my Mod hat here. Ok guys, enough of the RL vs 'the other forum'. Carl had initially started this thread, trying to gain an interest level of his 968 SC kits, and along the way the thread got twisted, for several reasons. Let's have this thread get back on track, for the benefit of Carl. And regarding 'the other forum', we have been down this road and went back and forth between the Admin (Bob), and myself. Ultimately it was and still is, decided that certain people are banned from RL, for the benefit of the community as a whole. Enough said.

Back to the program...

wiseman

I visit here often but don't usualy post. I have been following this thread on both sites and would just like to make the following observation..............
The folks on the other thread have written some very detailed explanations of how this whole thing has developed and are available for all but a few here to view. Their rational with Carl was that once his posting left the information stage and jumped to the advertising stage, he was asked to contribute as a vendor. He declined. Others here were blocked due to the language aimed at the other forum vendor. Their rules are are not any different than here. It was out of line...........it was blocked.
I remain confused about the design stealing. As I understand it, Carls unit requires a different airbox and oil cooling line. The other requires no line, and retains the stock airbox. Carl sais their Supercharger will only effect low and mid range and will not produce the power his does. They say theirs will bolster up the areas that are lacking in the stock power curve. Carl sais theirs will require an Intercooler, they say it will not. Carl sais his will bolt up to a stock unit regardless of mileage with no reliability issues. They are recommending a new Head Gasket for 50K mileage cars and 92 models would not be good candidates due to the connecting rod issue on those cars. Sure seems to me that there is plenty different about these 2 systems and Carl is pretty sure theirs will not work. So wheres the design stealing if theirs won't work? The location of the Supercharger? Did all of this drama go on when different performance chips were made? How about different LSD's? Struts braces? Did the first company to produce these call the others that followed all the names being thrown around here? Just because one company produces a product, if there is no patent infringement, does that mean another company can't try to produce something a little better and market it as such? This has been going on in this country forever...............its called competition.
Once the products are complete and side by side tests are done, then we will all know what is what and which one does what better if at all. If Carl is right, then theirs won't work anyway...................which again flies in the face of the "stealing" accusations. Why don't we all give this a rest and move on until the products are available. Then we will see who was right and who has the better mousetrap..

RolexNJ

Some of the 'other folks' have been banned from here, for various reasons as I mentioned above. If they didn't have a consistent track record, they would be more than welcome to come here and voice the views. But the fact remains they aren't allowed here. So this isn't a thread about Carl vs 'them', it is about Carl. That all being said, please have this thread head back in the right direction.

wiseman

10-4. Thanks.

josephsc

Thank you!!!
And don't forget everyone -- be sure the read the sticky thread at the top: https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...68-forums.html. I'll bring this thread back on-topic by asking:

Carl, CARB certification is really important for those us who want a streetable no-hassle car in California (ie: no-hassle with the DMV). Do you have any insights as to how your setup can be made California street-legal. I know there are super-charged 928's with your setup in California -- how have those customers managed with CARB?

FRporscheman

Hi Rob, thanks for your input. I just figured that forum rules were always on-topic on any thread. I'm sorry if it avalanched.

stolarzj, I'm confused, who did what?

The carb question is a good one though. If I bought the kit, I would just uninstall it every 2 years for the smog check. Obviously this is not "right". I am conscientious about the environment and I gladly abide by emissions limits but if a blown 968 passes the sniffer test I feel this should be enough... but in CA it isn't. What is involved in getting carb certification anyway? If you need a car in CA with the kit installed to submit to tests, I volunteer my car. And I ask nothing in return but shipping expenses. I have one with a tired motor and one with a rebuilt motor, your choice.

Carl Fausett

There is no way to CARB certify this kit at these sales levels. The APPLICATION for CARB certification is $36,000 - and thats just to get started. There will be other costs as the process moves forward. I have been down this road before. On a low-cost SC kit for a discontinued car... you wont get a CARB certified kit in these budgets.

BUT: I do sell a lot of 928 kits to So Cal... so how do we do it? Two ways:

1) we designed our kit to allow the supercharger headunit to be easily removed and replaced. The 928 owner in SoCal removes 3 bolts and puts his head unit and belt on the garage floor. He goes and gets recertified, comes home, and puts it back on for the next 2 years until he has to do that again.

2) I also have a number of customer who say they "shop" for a certification station that focuses only on the sniff test and take their Porsche to them. Our kits will pass emissions (idle speed and highway simulation sampling) tests with the supercharger in place and running. Go to one of these stations and get certified.

Carl Fausett

I did not mean to suggest anything about their kit at all - it would be inappropriate. Especially given that their kit is in development, does not exist yet, and I've never seen it or tested it. I DID comment generally about Rotrex superchargers. I believe I said they are a nice supercharger head unit with less adiabatic efficiency than the Raptor we use.

Other than that, I will not comment on their "kit"

...one last thing... the Raptor we use requires no oil lines. (see the quote above)

Thank you to the Moderators for keeping the thread clean. I appreciate it.

Damian in NJ

Well done Carl!

Mark944na86

You're a class act, Carl.

So: How's the S2 project coming along?