911passion

I was just going to say... they are pretty much gone.. and nice ones too..

Vandit

I've seen rollers that aren't even complete cars, missing the whole drivetrain and most of the car in pieces (big risk of missing components) selling for $15k. It is absolutely stupid as f'.

cobalt

Supply and demand. They just don't exist anymore. If you find one that doesn't need total reconstruction you're lucky.

mmporsche

When I spoke to Singer last year at Rennsport they said they were working on a 993 variant. Not sure if that is because the 964 donors were becoming too difficult to find.

On that note, I sold a 993 roller for $12K a few years ago (no doors, fenders, hoods, interior, drivetrain, completely stripped).

As Cobalt mentioned, "supply and demand". Where are you going to find a usable 964 or 993 roller these days? They are out there but will certainly command a premium.

964Luftballoon

Well there goes that idea of building an RWB LOL

I wouldn't dream of hacking up a good 964 to build one but a salvage roller wouldn't be so bad. By the sounds of it would cost way more just trying to get one to run properly first before any mods.

cobalt

Thank you for that.


I can't even find Salvage rollers much anymore and they don't last long when you do. I have my eye on one but it needs major work and isn't cheap. I have access to the jigs and a great shop but it is a lengthy usually back burner type project. I want to build a street 3.8RS clone in the worst way. I would prefer to hold out for a decent tub but I'm not holding my breath. At least I have a set of factory RSR speedlines for it. I can't believe I am saying this but finding a factory set of 3.8RSR speedlines is easier than finding a tub?

Vandit

Singer isn't buying up 964 carcasses because they're all about matching numbers.

It's probably just people asking a lot of money because they think that since complete cars are worth more, so should their pile of junk.

And who is overpaying for them? Folks that want to build a Magnus Walker outlaw or Singer Jr clone so that they can flip them to the trendwhre who read about these "air-cooled" cars on Petrolicious and wants to throw some money at the idea.

964Luftballoon

You're welcome!


It is a sad state of affairs salvage tubs are almost non existent. I blame the hipsters LOL

cobalt

People have been chopping up, converting, tracking 964's extensively since I started looking for them back in 2001. Even Geoffrey Ring took a clean Amazon Green 964 to build his RS clone and this was happening long before Singer was a thing. When they were cheap Blackbird on Pelican was parting perfectly good cars out by the dozens selling them for parts no different than what happened to all the 914's. There just aren't enough of these cars left and those that have nice examples aren't letting go. The rest will sell for those that want to build their dream outlaw or flip after a quick refresh. This isn't just a 964 thing we are working on a lot of long nose outlaws all the time. I know of some people that have a half dozen or more just waiting for their next build and most of them they keep. I find the biggest trend right now are the SC's. I see a lot come into my friends shop for a quick respray possible mechanical refresh and flip. They made so many that this should last for a while until they are all gone.

So what happens after all the roller SC's and earlier 911's are all gone? Will people move on as they seem to be doing with the early water cooled Porsche's or pay up if it is what they want? I have seen a significant increase in 944's especially the turbo and S2's the 968 and the 928 in low mileage original condition. Even some GTS automatics are now seeing $80k for 75k mile examples. These cars wouldn't fetch close to that just two years ago.

JohnK964

Anthony what are your estimates on how many 964s are left that haven't been chopped up modified. Just courious is all you seem to have a good feeling for this stuff.
JohnK964

cobalt

Unlike turbos and other lesser production quantity models it is a bit harder to figure out. However it is my opinion that most likely less than half of all US spec 964 coupes made still exist. There were far more made for the ROW market so this helps however I don't see base C2/C4's being imported here.

There are all sorts of numbers out there claiming X# made etc. My research shows me that these are the most accurate quantities of all Coupes both C2 and C4 along with 5 speed and tiptronic 964's. These do not include any cabs, targas, special edition or wide body (AR, 94 C4, RSA etc) there is also still some confusion on how many cars were double counted due to PCNA and the 718 code which change a vin from one year to the next. It is possible these numbers could be even lower.

1989....1,057
1990....1,257
1991....1,548
1992.......655
1993.......460
1994.......160
Total.....5,137

Consider that most likely less than half of these are C2's since all of the 89's are C4's.

Assuming I am correct that would leave 2500 or so. How many are still on the road or are now singer, Magnus clones, completely modified track cars like my RS clone is anyones guess. This number can be completely off however if it is most likely it would be less instead of more.

When I was restoring 914's I purchased sometimes 2 or 3 cars to make one good one. there were countless numbers of 914's made and now finding a roller tub can happen but nothing like it was back in the 90's.

JohnK964

Anthony your knowledge and willingness to share it that is awesome.
JohnK

greens

1992 911 Carrera RS (Euro): https://www.pca.org/classified-ad/320467

Super90

Then how many cars out there have 3.6L motors out of the 964's that are no longer with us?

Like this: http://bringatrailer.com/listing/197...rrera-row-3-6/

993PET

I know this car and the seller well, it's a rare touring model and in absolutely fabulous condition!