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I don't disagree at all, but he did specifically call out the 3.6T. Not sure why - maybe they had some RNMs, etc - maybe they've been having convos with buyers/sellers, not sure.
I don't think he is saying they aren't special cars - or even rare compared to others. His point was he thinks they are overvalued when they're trading in the 400k+ range as some have because they aren't *that* rare to justify those prices.
LOL so let me get this straight.
No mention of the 1989 basic and touring RS's made which far exceeds the number of 3.6T's? Or the N/GT's which is a useless street car are commanding as much if not more? But these he doesn't mention? I call BS. Sounds like he has an issue with the 3.6T. I have spoken to many of these experts and half the time I know much more about the 964 than they do. Granted they have a wider spectrum of knowledge regarding cars and the overall market which doesn't interest me with most of those cars. But to call out an iconic car like the 964 turbo 3.6, well known for its role in the BB movie and literally the rarest air cooled turbo made and possibly the rarest air cooled 911 made other than the uber low production under 50 units specialty cars, these are not rare enough.
Sorry but he has his head where the sun don't shine on this one. I still have a standing offer for $600k and I will not sell at that price. I have over 3 dozen owners I know of and nobody is remotely considering selling at any price. There are so few good ones period never mind ones that come up for sale. i would love to know what he bases his info on? Hagerty was always way way off along with Excelence on the values of these cars. Interesting the 3.3's are still showing signs of growth. At $230 plus fees that cobalt blue sold for a pretty penny considering non original paint which no longer color shifts and much more I could point out. IMO it sold at the right price. Still a nice car but far from original and finding an original 965 these days is quite rare 3.3 or 3.6T.
I think RM was totally blown away by what that Oak Green 3.6 did. More than this particular car should’ve done despite the desirable spec. Their estimate of €175k-€225k was way too low, but €511k for it was just bonkers. Think his reasoning for them being overvalued as too were many produced is not a great reason. Could understand somewhat if he thought they were overvalued compared to the 3.3. The 3.6 not the rarest Porsche there is, but it’s rarer than a lot of other desirable collectible cars. To name a few they made 3,258 Mercedes 300 SL’s (1,400 Gullwing’s and 1,858 Roadsters), 4,038 2005-2006 Ford GT’s, and 5,703 BMW Z8’s. Don’t hear many people talk about these as overproduced cars as not many people realize it. Also at least for the last two, Ford GT and BMW Z8, most are in good condition. See countless Ford GT’s come up for sale with basically no miles and some still with their delivery wrapping applied. Like you said of the 1,400 or so 3.6 Turbo’s produced a surprising amount are not in great shape as a lot have been crashed or neglected.
All valid points however I don't think that car oversold. 7 years ago I know people who spent triple market for unique PTS 3.6T's. The green one was a unique example and unique sells. Originality seems to be less important than a few years ago. Just like everyone has to have a PTS Gt3RS these days. Nobody wants to show up at a car event in their run of the mill GT3RS in a standard color. There are a number of owners I know that purchased 3.6T's for just below market in the upper $300k because of mileage and needs. Only to put another $150k into them bringing the car up above market. I doubt this will stop.
The only cooling that might occur is by the buyer who has $400-600k to spend and doesn't know what he wants but wants the best with no hassle's. So when that Ferrari or lambo comes along and it is a good buy they will buy that instead. The true enthusiast that wants one of these will continue to have to pay up one way or another or move on. There are just too few out there.
All valid points however I don't think that car oversold. 7 years ago I know people who spent triple market for unique PTS 3.6T's. The green one was a unique example and unique sells. Originality seems to be less important than a few years ago. Just like everyone has to have a PTS Gt3RS these days. Nobody wants to show up at a car event in their run of the mill GT3RS in a standard color. There are a number of owners I know that purchased 3.6T's for just below market in the upper $300k because of mileage and needs. Only to put another $150k into them bringing the car up above market. I doubt this will stop.
The only cooling that might occur is by the buyer who has $400-600k to spend and doesn't know what he wants but wants the best with no hassle's. So when that Ferrari or lambo comes along and it is a good buy they will buy that instead. The true enthusiast that wants one of these will continue to have to pay up one way or another or move on. There are just too few out there.
Do you know of any Oak Green/Sherwood Green 3.6’s in the states? The listing said there were 3 known to exist. Assume the example that sold is the only one without a sunroof which means a lot. Probably aren’t any in this color combo states. Maybe a few with one of these exterior or interior colors though not paired together. Very hard to say where the market is for a unique example like this. Know a bunch of people are looking for 3.6’s in unique colors and at the auction there was a lot of interest in this particular car.
Do you know of any Oak Green/Sherwood Green 3.6’s in the states? The listing said there were 3 known to exist. Assume the example that sold is the only one without a sunroof which means a lot. Probably aren’t any in this color combo states. Maybe a few with one of these exterior or interior colors though not paired together. Very hard to say where the market is for a unique example like this. Know a bunch of people are looking for 3.6’s in unique colors and at the auction there was a lot of interest in this particular car.
I only know of a single forest green, signal green and Irish green a few Wimbledon and of course Amazon 3.6T's it doesn't mean there isn't an Oak green in the states. Oak green was a 93 color so it wasn't liked I guess. There are a few cars in unique colors I know of that have never surfaced publicly in all these years. I also have never seen mint or an aventurine green in the US, but it was a 94 only color and many of these were built long before 94 color release. These colors weren't common for US buyers most of the US imports were red, white black or silver, then Midnight blue, Metallic black, speed yellow and down the line. Very few unique colors made it here. Maybe 33% or less than 100 in all are not the standard 4. Most US buyers were pretty basic and wanted the car but not draw excessive attention to themselves. Interior colors weren't big either here. Mostly light gray, classic gray, black etc. I see more unique colors on the 3.3's than I do the 3.6's.
For me personally - white is my least favorite color but for some reason with the magenta interior and top I find myself really drawn to it. It also seems very stock and unmolested (but as has been proven here I'm no expert judge lol - I also haven't investigated every picture). Based on all that, I'm guessing 65-75k.
For me personally - white is my least favorite color but for some reason with the magenta interior and top I find myself really drawn to it. It also seems very stock and unmolested (but as has been proven here I'm no expert judge lol - I also haven't investigated every picture). Based on all that, I'm guessing 65-75k.
Saw this one on Hemmings a couple weeks ago and thought they were asking $90k or there abouts. The paint looks a little peppered.
I only know of a single forest green, signal green and Irish green a few Wimbledon and of course Amazon 3.6T's it doesn't mean there isn't an Oak green in the states. Oak green was a 93 color so it wasn't liked I guess. There are a few cars in unique colors I know of that have never surfaced publicly in all these years. I also have never seen mint or an aventurine green in the US, but it was a 94 only color and many of these were built long before 94 color release. These colors weren't common for US buyers most of the US imports were red, white black or silver, then Midnight blue, Metallic black, speed yellow and down the line. Very few unique colors made it here. Maybe 33% or less than 100 in all are not the standard 4. Most US buyers were pretty basic and wanted the car but not draw excessive attention to themselves. Interior colors weren't big either here. Mostly light gray, classic gray, black etc. I see more unique colors on the 3.3's than I do the 3.6's.
Towards the end of the 964 generation sales were progressively getting worse each year. Rock bottom was 1994 which was one of the worst years for US Porsche sales in the modern era. Assume since not a lot of people were ordering cars most of the 3.6’s were dealer specced. When cars are dealer specced they tend to stick to more safe color combinations to make them an easier sell. In a recession people generally don’t want unusual colored cars. Original owner of a PTS Fly Yellow RSA said it sat for sale at the dealer for 6 months with no takers as no one wanted a yellow car at the time. Economy in 1991 may’ve been a little better and more people were ordering their own cars. Also there are double the amount of 3.3’s as there are 3.6’s.
Might need to watch out for this one. I've seen some quick flips from this place in the past so I'm not surprised but the poster also goes on to say that the VIN is now different as well. THAT is some shady stuff.
Do you know of any Oak Green/Sherwood Green 3.6’s in the states? The listing said there were 3 known to exist. Assume the example that sold is the only one without a sunroof which means a lot. Probably aren’t any in this color combo states. Maybe a few with one of these exterior or interior colors though not paired together. Very hard to say where the market is for a unique example like this. Know a bunch of people are looking for 3.6’s in unique colors and at the auction there was a lot of interest in this particular car.
Register number 269 on my site is Oak Green Metallic. I remember when it was bought for $75k
about 10 years ago
I was chatting this evening with a car buddy that has a massive collection - and a long time ago - acquired 3 - 964 turbos. This evening I learned that one of them is a 3.6 Turbo hat is Guards Red over black with red piping, sport seated euro with 24k on it.
I'll be looking for an invitation to take some pictures, and yes, the door finally cracked open a bit for negotiations to begin...
Towards the end of the 964 generation sales were progressively getting worse each year. Rock bottom was 1994 which was one of the worst years for US Porsche sales in the modern era. Assume since not a lot of people were ordering cars most of the 3.6’s were dealer specced. When cars are dealer specced they tend to stick to more safe color combinations to make them an easier sell. In a recession people generally don’t want unusual colored cars. Original owner of a PTS Fly Yellow RSA said it sat for sale at the dealer for 6 months with no takers as no one wanted a yellow car at the time. Economy in 1991 may’ve been a little better and more people were ordering their own cars. Also there are double the amount of 3.3’s as there are 3.6’s.
I get a lot of mixed stories from friends who sold Porsche's in the late 80's till present. I see many strange things in the later 94 964's. I was told by 2 long time sales people that the dealership had to have a signed contract with a buyer to buy anything in a color other than the standard palate. I can't confirm if this was a PCNA requirement or dealer management. They could spec only the basic colors and clearly Speed yellow, signal green, maritime blue, Rubystone etc were a huge chance to take on the US market when cars in general were colorless. Not to mention the 1" square on the brochure to go by. After researching these for over 20 years I can assure you most that came over were Black, red, or white. I have seen special order colors like my cobalt sell with no attached up charge and others ordered from the optional color palate like cobalt with charges as much as $3500. It is possible that this all changed when they switched to 94MY instead of the 93's being 718 coded. I just don't have enough info to say for sure.I had forgot to mention Polar silver is the most common of the metallics. Although silver has always been a huge seller.
Specialty expensive cars like the AR and C4 wide body, I recall sitting along side 928GTS's for a year of more and eventually sold off cheap. People didn't have endless amounts of cash like today. $100k back in 1994 was a ton of money and I could buy houses today selling for $600k for $60k back then.
I knew of several who ordered turbos in 90. The economy was doing quite well after the rough 80's then fell off quickly. A few of those cars are still owned by the same family today. BTW there were nearly 3 times the number of 3.3T's made vs the 3.6T world wide. The 3.6 was too costly and everyone was waiting for the new 993 to come along so to this day the 3.6T is one of the rarest or all air cooled 911's. Even the Widebody cabs and C4's were produced in larger quantities. Interestingly if you exclude the specialty cars of under 100 produced the RSA is the rarest of them all. With only 701 produced but to me I still see it as a subcategory of the C2. Great cars all of them.
Saw this one on Hemmings a couple weeks ago and thought they were asking $90k or there abouts. The paint looks a little peppered.
Wow - I would be shocked to see it go that high. I imagine BAT is requiring a reserve lower than that (since it would appear to be proven to not sell at 90k already), but lots on RNMs lately so might be interesting.
Wow - I would be shocked to see it go that high. I imagine BAT is requiring a reserve lower than that (since it would appear to be proven to not sell at 90k already), but lots on RNMs lately so might be interesting.
seeing the same. i think a seller's expectations are still based on 'yesterday' and buyers are looking at tomorrow.
Looked over the Amazon Green car and looks like a great example. Going off mainly the BaT listing as the car looks basically the same as it does on Hemmings. If I were in the market for a C2 would be on this one. Think if the car is what I think it is it’s worth the ask as good examples are hard to come by and it’s worth paying up for a good sorted one. Also found this listing when Nathan Merz sold it previously.
02-15-2024, 09:13 AM
There are a number of owners I know that purchased 3.6T's for just below market in the upper $300k because of mileage and needs. Only to put another $150k into them bringing the car up above market. I doubt this will stop. 
