cobalt

I honestly feel any of the newer RS's will not do well over time. They can't be modified like the earlier cars and if modified currently turn buyers away. I see so many being converted back to stock just to be sold. They are stupidly complex and expensive to fix and most aren't driven enough or trashed by young owners which I feel given time will show its head. The lack of a manual option will limit their market. I would say the 997.2 in most any form in a manual is the big one to grab. Possibly a 991-2T or the GT3T's manual but they are already pricey if you can find a good one but most of these cars are already asking absurdly high dollars for. Any of the low production cars will attract collectors but you have to be someone to buy one and will pay nearly double MSRP so where its the growth? I don't feel we will be seeing anything rise in value like the 964 but that boat has sailed. Possibly the market is still ok for the 996GT3 but another hens tooth these days.

I was talking about doing this conversion years ago but then the price of cabs started to rise and after doing my slick top conversion realized it is far more work than I have time for. I still have 2 964's I can build something out of so I am good for my lifetime. Maybe this is the next big thing. We can see what it brings but crunching the numbers it would need to bring C2 numbers to make it worth while. It would be nice if singer started doing this instead of chopping up all the good coupes.

dmaddox

I'm really having trouble understanding the current 964 market. This Euro C2, 1990, yes low miles, but otherwise ??, 150K. However, my car, a 1993 has been through several fine-tooth combs, suspension, engine, interior, transmission, and not a single call. I must be way off on my value? Am I "that guy" that has a chevy 350 kit-car asking 100K? Sure feels like it, ha ha ha!

Strange seeing (in my...I guess...pompous opinion) so many 964's in lesser shape and condition, selling for more than my asking price. Does a sunroof (perfectly operating, too) and 95K miles (great compression and leakdown) discredit the car this much?

jreifler

Your car is incredibly nice. We discussed last year. I suspect your issue is simply audience. I feel confident you'd easily net your number on BaT. You're not going to get major traction just advertising in this forum, though. If you have them, I'd put Cup 1s back on and list on BaT. I like your wheels, but always polarizing for a broad audience, and you will get more for them off the car.

dmaddox

Thank you @jreifler , excellent advice. I, too, even since getting the wheels (my car came with black aftermarket cup 1's, not real cup 1's) have questioned the "look". I should have just gotten the wide cup 1's from the get go, not these fuch's. I'll see what I can do :-)

Thank you!! -dallas

jreifler

Have to disagree slightly just having shopped .1 and .2RS for several months. The die-hard 997GT guys seem to be about evenly split on .1 / .2RS preference. Many prefer the 3.6 and styling of the .1. Almost all agree 7.2 is the better tech and more refined drive, which is undeniable. But there seems to be more emotion tied to the first RS to hit US shores. The styling and iconic color scheme won me over.

Value-wise, .1 and .2 RS are already nearly equivalent for low mileage, great spec cars. Slight delta in favor of .2 when viewed in aggregate, but I don't think it will bear out long term. .1RS is actually the rarer car production # wise. Either way, 7GT is the one to hold.

widers911

I will have to 2nd jreifler's comment above.

Having owned both 7.1rs and 7.2rs, it is 100% inaccurate that 7.1rs is viewed as the "next best" option due to 7.2rs pricing. Someone that only wants a 7.1rs will pay up for their desired spec. Even thou 7.2rs is a better car on paper and real world lap times, it doesn't mean it's a more "fun" experience or more sought after. It's quite common the true 997 GT die-hards out there have owned them all, some will always pick the .2 over a .1 (and vice versa). Although the reasons differ for everyone, there is a special intangible characteristic of the 7.1rs in orange or green with the .1 graphics and .1 styling. IMO, the 7.1rs will be the icon for 997 gen (outside the rs4.0). I've sold my 7.2rs to get back into a 7.1rs for more $. That doesn't mean the 7.1rs is a better car, it just means the 7.1rs is better for ME. I'm not trying to start that debate lol

darylbowden

You'll have a hard time convincing me of that, but that's ok. I think the fact that there are fewer .1s and yet the .2s go for more speaks to their desirability by collectors. I'd have to look at the recent sales to see what the delta is, but I would be surprised if it is "slight" as that traditionally hasn't been the case.

In the 991 GT camp, there are those who will tell you the .1 with the 3.8 is much more visceral and raw, is the one to have, etc but the money disagrees with them too (even for the ones with the good, G6 engines).

Anyhow - more on the topic of 964 prices - was listening to the Smoking Tire podcast yesterday and they had the CEO of RM auctions on. Matt asked him which cars are overvalued and due for a fall in prices and he called out the 964 Turbos, specifically the 3.6. His point was that they made way too many of them for them to be fetching the prices they are, the rarity just isn't there, no matter how good the car is. I don't really have an informed opinion on whether or not that is true, but I thought it was interesting that the CEO of one of the biggest auction platforms chose that as his one example to call out.

Carrera51

I thought that the 3.6 Turbo was rarer of the 964 Turbos.

cobalt

I don't care who is saying it, they have to be nuts and how many experts over the years claimed these wouldn't go up in value and were wrong. Podcasts are IMO mostly BS.

With only 335 stock non S 3.6T's imported to the US and another 13 to Canada a total production of 1314 world wide including US spec and 134 of which were RHD models, I would say that is less than the 1590 73 RS which most say is low production. There are probably more 73 RS's that survived than 3.6T's. Back in 2000 when I was shopping I compiled a list of 60 US spec cars that were no longer with us or had salvage titles. I came across another large number of cars with undisclosed issues and accident damage. I still have a long list of lookers for a 3.6T. Sadly I can't find anything I would suggest buying as so many are in need of a full restoration. The majority of the imports we see coming in I would not touch with your money.

That is a pretty bold statement as I suspect they are combining 3.3's and 3.6T's which are unique in their own right and continue to hold if not gain in value. Especially compared to the nearly 12k 930's made world wide. These people speculate all the time and most of the time we find it is nothing more than a blind guess. If I read them correctly they are saying only cars like the turbo S or one of the 20 C4 lightweights and under 100 cars produced will be going up in value? Otherwise I think they are off their rocker. They will never make another car like the 965 and it is such a unique experience I doubt they will ever drop, plateau maybe but not drop.

So to put it in perspective they made 1376 89 930 5 speed turbos with 519 coming to the US and Canada. That still makes the 3.6T rarer than a 5 speed 930 with far less US spec cars and the only difference is the trans. The 3.6T got a complete updated and improved engine. first car with red brakes, and 18" modular wheels. A ground breaker for the day. Sadly they still retained CIS but that is half the fun.

rsabeebe

that's a bit of a frankenstein car. i read through the description and comments and just couldn't figure out the real story - there is a story there.

PTS 964 that is no longer original config or original paint. the 3.8 and 5 speed conversions were not cheap. new carpets, rear seats gone, and different sport seats (not ordered this way) all point the "flood area" comment. "flood area" or "flood car"??

does the coupe conversion, but does so with a sunroof. i know not everyone wants a slick top, but that would have been the better choice. to me, everything seems to point to previous damage before all the conversions. bizarre auction - will be watching out of curiosity.

darylbowden

I don't disagree at all, but he did specifically call out the 3.6T. Not sure why - maybe they had some RNMs, etc - maybe they've been having convos with buyers/sellers, not sure.

I don't think he is saying they aren't special cars - or even rare compared to others. His point was he thinks they are overvalued when they're trading in the 400k+ range as some have because they aren't *that* rare to justify those prices.

Carrera51

I like it. Given the silly money coupes are bringing I can see why they did it. Wouldn't the cabiolet chassis have additional bracing built in to stiffen the car? I would want to see it in person if I were bidding and have an expert look closely at the work done to do the conversion.

darylbowden

I know nothing about the car, but it appears the bodywork was done by Alex @ Perfect Lines (which shares a complex with TLG auto in North Hollywood). I've seen a lot of their work and it's usually been to a pretty high level. Agree it's odd to choose a sunroof car, if you're already spending 21k, might as well spend a bit more and get a better result with a slicktop, especially since this is intended to be a performance-oriented build.

The flood stuff scares the hell out of me and I wouldn't bid on a Frankenstein unless I personally knew the history (or could verify it with reliable sources).

2000m2

Yes, so many questions about that one. 🤔
A lot of work has gone into it, for sure, but why??

RapidGT

I think RM was totally blown away by what that Oak Green 3.6 did. More than this particular car should’ve done despite the desirable spec. Their estimate of €175k-€225k was way too low, but €511k for it was just bonkers. Think his reasoning for them being overvalued as too were many produced is not a great reason. Could understand somewhat if he thought they were overvalued compared to the 3.3. The 3.6 not the rarest Porsche there is, but it’s rarer than a lot of other desirable collectible cars. To name a few they made 3,258 Mercedes 300 SL’s (1,400 Gullwing’s and 1,858 Roadsters), 4,038 2005-2006 Ford GT’s, and 5,703 BMW Z8’s. Don’t hear many people talk about these as overproduced cars as not many people realize it. Also at least for the last two, Ford GT and BMW Z8, most are in good condition. See countless Ford GT’s come up for sale with basically no miles and some still with their delivery wrapping applied. Like you said of the 1,400 or so 3.6 Turbo’s produced a surprising amount are not in great shape as a lot have been crashed or neglected.

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/p...rbo-36/1426683