MF993

Inspecting the car is so important. I spent about two years looking for a nice rare color 964 across the globe. I had a full PPI done on five cars before I ended up finding one that fit the bill. I can 100% say that two of the five had their odometer rolled back. One of these was at a very reputable shop in Europe. You gotta be careful out there. I think a lot of the higher mileage cars are much better than some of the lower mileage ones (if you plan to drive them at least). I agree with the ice blasting thing. An iceblasted car to me is a big red flag. I want to see the casing and signs of use. Now if they were real legit about it and had tons of pictures before dry ice that may be one thing, but that is rarely the case.

bweSteve

I had my entire underbody dry ice blasted last year in preparation for Pocono Parade Concours (but broke a head stud right before the trip, so brought a diff 911). Then with engine / tranny out, decided to do some vapor honing on the top sides of drive-train too.

Owned for 19 yrs, documented 81k miles, and have tons of before pics. I've gone through this car so many times in my ownership that deciding to dry ice blast was a no brainer for me.
I never plan to sell anyway, & I LOVE what it did for the car.

... just sayin' ... that there are indeed reasons & instances where folks can make that decision for the right reasons.

MF993

No doubt Steve. I think cars look fantastic after dry ice cleaning, and I am not opposed to doing it. I have done it on a few of my cars, especially ones that I drive more regularly My point wasn't don't do it, but more if you see it done I would ask questions. If they have great answers and documentation, then you make a decision based off that. If they don't have any documentation or story, then you may make a different decision.

Spyder_2011

Personally I love that dry ice blasting is available to get the undercarriages cleaned up. For those of us that show our cars and or want to maintain them at a very high level I find it to be a very useful and environmentally friendly tool.

Yeah it can be used by unscrupulous dealers to hide leaks but it can’t hide corrosion and wear/tear. We just need to recalibrate how we approach inspections when a car has had this work done. Records will become even more important to show what work has been done and what remains to be done. If a car has had dry ice blast, no records and the top side looks like its had average maintenance/care then its a red flag and warrants an in depth PPI. If however the car comes with records showing up to date maintenance and the top side is as pristine as the undercarriage I’d consider that a no brainer purchase.

jeff33702

In my experience, it depends on the person behind the counter. I've had older cars where they assumed the miles had flipped - and I had to insist on them making sure to record the accurate mileage. They will go back and look at the mileage at previous registration renewals to verify but you have to ask them to. If they try to make a car exempt that should NOT be, I would ask for a manager...and if the manager doesn't want to do the right thing, I pack up and go to a different DMV.

928 GT R

Records are the only reliable method of verifying miles and the correlation to the condition of the vehicle is critical to making a solid judgement of what a car is - or is not.

Florida and Michigans policy of making miles exempt is a difficult pill to swallow for collectors like myself. Records become absolutely essential in these cases and the recording of everything done to the car (even by the owner) is critical.

jeff33702

I cant agree it's that absolute. Common sense applies. Detailed records were not kept for many of these cars so you have to consider any reasonably vetted evidence. If a car has been labeled Exempt on the title, then you can still use common sense to compare last DMV registration miles to current. The condition of the car should reasonably match the presented miles or why would you even look further?

As far as I know - the Florida thing is actually a Federal law and more states have and will adopt it. They recently changed it to 20 years for newer cars. Also, like I mentioned before, it's not automatic. Just because you have a 90s car doesn't mean it gets an exempt miles registration/title status. Just ask that it stay accurate and that they inspect the car, if required. I wonder if dealers "like" the exempt status so they allowed it to happen so that they could attempt a rollback..I don't know. My 94 has 140k miles and has always lived in Florida. Was registered in 2018 and again in 2022 - it's not labeled exempt, the miles on the registration and odometer match and are consistent with the condition of the car. At this point, I don't need any additional records beyond that to prove to a resonably intelligent person that the miles are accurate.
Consumer Alert: Changes to Odometer Disclosure Requirements | NHTSA
This is in regards to the requirement that a seller/buyer fill out the odometer reading on the title during the sale - odometer disclosures. It doesn't say that you cant disclose, just that certain years, you are not required to. Same for the DMV, they aren't required to have the mileage and, in those cases, will "exempt" the car. You can still fill it out and you can still ask them to make sure it's NOT exempted. As far as I know, this really just relieves the DMV staff from physically walking out to the parking lot to verify the mileage on the car, which is something they have previously been required to do. If you run into a situation where they insist on making the car exempt because they are avoiding the need to inspect the car, it's in your best interest to make that happen, otherwise do not let them register the car. I told them up front that my car was a classic car and accurate mileage on the title was important.

If someone has the misfortune of having their car registered as Exempt - then the historical mileage prior to that Exempt status should still be valid but you would still need start documenting thoroughly going forward. If someone is considering buying a car from a dealer who says this law is not avoidable and that all cars are exempt, I'd look twice.

Greg Wolfe

1994 Turbo Look:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...4-widebody-14/

Mr. Wolfe

rsabeebe

this is an interesting presentation. it was obviously not 'dolled up' for most of the pics (some look a bit less dusty...) and portraying it's originality seemed important to the seller. low miles, but the condition appears as "owned it, drove it occassionally, never worried much about condition". the people who will be attracted by the low miles will know that potentially significant investment may be necessary. i think i would have done some work, but i guess you can't get a more honest offering than something like this. maybe you leave it as, drive the **** out of it, and wind up with a nicely patina'd car years and years from now (thinking Seinfeld's speedster). will be interesting to watch the peanut gallery on this one and the end result.

rsabeebe

already at $150k. does it just sit there for the next 6 days?

Greg Wolfe

I'm going to say north of $180k.

Mr. Wolfe

cobalt

It is interesting that in the 20+ years I have been around 964's specifically and decades of other earlier 911's that the way we look at these cars has changed so much in just the past 5 years.

Each car has a story. I have gotten to the point I can read a 964's story in a short time. Some are carefully covered up but look hard enough and the story is easily read. odo and paint meter readings like anything are just markers and sometimes they are the truth and sometimes not. Learn how to read 964 and you will never get taken but it took me a long time to learn to read.

BTW I have seen Florida cars sold as original and I knew the cars true history 20 years before. I am always cautious of anything that comes from there.

s65e90

I think you could say this about most used cars.

jeff33702

I agree (as a Florida man) - Florida was one state that, over the years, has been notoriously easy to wash a title in...so it has that stigma, sure. BUT, the vetting process for buying a used car will be the same as anywhere else, if you care about your money. There are no "additional" checks that need to be performed on a car from Florida that wouldn't be 100% suggested no matter what state you buy from.

The issue is with high dollar items...especially ones that sell for $ in X condition but $$$ in better condition...business AND crime are drawn to these types of commodities. So in the Porsche market, you have to watch your butt.

georgej

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...era-2-coupe-6/
10k miles and apparently not TMU, now live on BAT. Should be interesting to watch.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...ra-2-coupe-25/
Seems like a bargain.