Porsche 964 - 200kg challenge
#196
The guy that has an "auxiliary man cave"- he's really got it all!
Take a look at the location for the tapered ball joint placement on the 993 vs the 964 upright and I think you may find a difference close to or equivalent to the difference of the 2 longitudinals. I may be wrong but just comparing the uprights by eye, the the location of the bearing relative to the female ball joint is different.
Pete
Take a look at the location for the tapered ball joint placement on the 993 vs the 964 upright and I think you may find a difference close to or equivalent to the difference of the 2 longitudinals. I may be wrong but just comparing the uprights by eye, the the location of the bearing relative to the female ball joint is different.
Pete
#197
Take a look at the location for the tapered ball joint placement on the 993 vs the 964 upright and I think you may find a difference close to or equivalent to the difference of the 2 longitudinals. I may be wrong but just comparing the uprights by eye, the the location of the bearing relative to the female ball joint is different.
Pete
Pete
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kos11-12 (02-02-2021)
#198
Rennlist Member
I went through this back in 2015 and again recently. You did figure out what was needed for the most part. I am running the 993 longitudinal on my 964 wide body track build. I was running the 993 N/A uprights but recently switched over to the 993RS/EVO style. Even the stock turbo sway bar is less than perfect fit since you are pushing the front end out an additional 12.5 mm per side vs the 964 turbo So spacers will be required for the drop links. Less than ideal but the handling is worth the wider front track. I also had the 993 front hub issue. As you saw the 964 C2 front was the only hub on the 964/993 that used the setup that gave you issues. I was going to press off the ABS ring and swap it over but decided to cut up a set of C4 front axles I had lying around. I used the entire stub axle portion which worked perfectly. It would have set you up for the original center hub setup which I prefer over the 997 mess. I find way too many issues with the 997 units and Porsche requires and expensive rebuild every 4 k miles or so IIRC. We rebuild the locking mechanisms which is needed often if tracking as they don't pop out and lock properly given time. Also a huge PITA to torque down properly.
For reference this is a 993 ABS gear and mount left the 964 C2 front is above right and the 964 C4 I cut down and made for my car is bottom
993 vs 964 ABS rings
Before and after modifications
You will also need 993 tie rods vs the 964. If you have any questions I have been down this road before and happy to help.
For reference this is a 993 ABS gear and mount left the 964 C2 front is above right and the 964 C4 I cut down and made for my car is bottom
993 vs 964 ABS rings
Before and after modifications
You will also need 993 tie rods vs the 964. If you have any questions I have been down this road before and happy to help.
Last edited by cobalt; 02-02-2021 at 10:31 AM.
#199
Rennlist Member
Again, truly incredible work with the latest video.
#200
Three Wheelin'
Very nice and interesting video !
well Done !
It’s interesting to see you chose the standard 993 uprights rather than the 993 RS version.
Aparantly BBI in US came up with an upgrade of the RS version.
intrigued to hear your opinion
cheers
well Done !
It’s interesting to see you chose the standard 993 uprights rather than the 993 RS version.
Aparantly BBI in US came up with an upgrade of the RS version.
intrigued to hear your opinion
cheers
#201
I went through this back in 2015 and again recently. You did figure out what was needed for the most part. I am running the 993 longitudinal on my 964 wide body track build. I was running the 993 N/A uprights but recently switched over to the 993RS/EVO style. Even the stock turbo sway bar is less than perfect fit since you are pushing the front end out an additional 12.5 mm per side vs the 964 turbo So spacers will be required for the drop links. Less than ideal but the handling is worth the wider front track. I also had the 993 front hub issue. As you saw the 964 C2 front was the only hub on the 964/993 that used the setup that gave you issues. I was going to press off the ABS ring and swap it over but decided to cut up a set of C4 front axles I had lying around. I used the entire stub axle portion which worked perfectly. It would have set you up for the original center hub setup which I prefer over the 997 mess. I find way too many issues with the 997 units and Porsche requires and expensive rebuild every 4 k miles or so IIRC. We rebuild the locking mechanisms which is needed often if tracking as they don't pop out and lock properly given time. Also a huge PITA to torque down properly.
For reference this is a 993 ABS gear and mount left the 964 C2 front is above right and the 964 C4 I cut down and made for my car is bottom
993 vs 964 ABS rings
Before and after modifications
You will also need 993 tie rods vs the 964. If you have any questions I have been down this road before and happy to help.
For reference this is a 993 ABS gear and mount left the 964 C2 front is above right and the 964 C4 I cut down and made for my car is bottom
993 vs 964 ABS rings
Before and after modifications
You will also need 993 tie rods vs the 964. If you have any questions I have been down this road before and happy to help.
I was also looking at cutting and using the front shafts. What I found was that the front shaft splines are smaller than the rear shaft splines and they would not lock up against the RSR hub. I also looked at using the rear shafts but then the ABS ring didn’t line up.
In my case and since I have a Motorsport ABS don’t bother about 45 or 48 teeth as it’s all configurable in the software.
#202
The only reason I wasn’t going that route was that I wanted to have the freedom
of making my own design of these in the next step.
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kos11-12 (02-03-2021)
#203
Rennlist Member
That’s really good info! I wanted to use the 993 longitudinal but was worried that I get a too wide track and that it offsets the scrub radius too much giving an unstable car. The other concern I have is how much of an outer lip I will have left once I get ahold of a BBS E88. I would love to have a set here to try!
I was also looking at cutting and using the front shafts. What I found was that the front shaft splines are smaller than the rear shaft splines and they would not lock up against the RSR hub. I also looked at using the rear shafts but then the ABS ring didn’t line up.
In my case and since I have a Motorsport ABS don’t bother about 45 or 48 teeth as it’s all configurable in the software.
I was also looking at cutting and using the front shafts. What I found was that the front shaft splines are smaller than the rear shaft splines and they would not lock up against the RSR hub. I also looked at using the rear shafts but then the ABS ring didn’t line up.
In my case and since I have a Motorsport ABS don’t bother about 45 or 48 teeth as it’s all configurable in the software.
I run 9 X 18 ET 51 Fikse's, 9 x 18 ET50 E88's or 9.5 X 18 ET57 RSR factory Speedlines on mine with the 993 longitudinal. My fenders are factory steel and everything fit fine until I hit the track hard and sliced a new R7. I had rolled the fenders all but the last inch of the front. Ended up being a mistake and I used vice grips at the track to do a painful mod to the lip. It was that or miss three days of driving. Minor damage but worth the weekend of driving. Always something!!
It is pretty tight but works.
#205
Rennlist Member
I chose to stay with the 993 hub for several reasons being a dedicated track car. I didn't want to go center hub which negates these concerns.
The 993 hub is a more substantial piece. I can't find the pics of them side by side but the areas where the studs mount have added material for greater strength. The 993 hub also interlocks the ABS ring with the hub instead of the 964 design which uses the ID of the bearing to center the ring. You can see the conical end of the hub in the picture where the 993 ABS or 964 C4 front axle lock into it and center the ring.
On the 964 hub the raised bosses the stud seats against are machined flat.
Last edited by cobalt; 02-03-2021 at 08:52 AM.
#207
Drifting
I've done this to and I did write a post about it here some years ago. And I do talk to Jonas since we know each other.
On my narrow body car I did end up with this set up:
993RS uprights
993C2/C4 longitudinals
993RS tie rods
964 cup sway bar/drop links
964 Hubs
993TT Rotors
964RSR struts/mounts
BBS E28 8" ET50
Front camber -3,5, Pirelli Trofeo
Front ride height is low, around 100 mm
And now the front end is really nice on the track. Very stable, lots of grip and no bump steer.
On my narrow body car I did end up with this set up:
993RS uprights
993C2/C4 longitudinals
993RS tie rods
964 cup sway bar/drop links
964 Hubs
993TT Rotors
964RSR struts/mounts
BBS E28 8" ET50
Front camber -3,5, Pirelli Trofeo
Front ride height is low, around 100 mm
And now the front end is really nice on the track. Very stable, lots of grip and no bump steer.
#208
Not to step on any toes but yes they are interchangeable.
I chose to stay with the 993 hub for several reasons being a dedicated track car. I didn't want to go center hub which negates these concerns.
The 993 hub is a more substantial piece. I can't find the pics of them side by side but the areas where the studs mount have added material for greater strength. The 993 hub also interlocks the ABS ring with the hub instead of the 964 design which uses the ID of the bearing to center the ring. You can see the conical end of the hub in the picture where the 993 ABS or 964 C4 front axle lock into it and center the ring.
On the 964 hub the raised bosses the stud seats against are machined flat.
I chose to stay with the 993 hub for several reasons being a dedicated track car. I didn't want to go center hub which negates these concerns.
The 993 hub is a more substantial piece. I can't find the pics of them side by side but the areas where the studs mount have added material for greater strength. The 993 hub also interlocks the ABS ring with the hub instead of the 964 design which uses the ID of the bearing to center the ring. You can see the conical end of the hub in the picture where the 993 ABS or 964 C4 front axle lock into it and center the ring.
On the 964 hub the raised bosses the stud seats against are machined flat.
#209
Question for those that have moved to the outer mounting holes. Is it possible on a C4 with the requirement of wider front axles and sway bar or is this something reserved for C2s only?