Adapters for GT3 brakes
12-01-2006, 04:24 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Adapters for GT3 brakes
OK so I bought a nice set of GT3/996TT brakes for my 87 951 a couple of months ago.
Now it´s time for the winter upgrades and they have to get on.
Is there anyone that have drawings for this kind of adapter or knows if anyone sells them?
I have searched all specialists out there but havent found any yet.
Sandén in Sweden do sell them at high prices but since i'm a student nowadays I want more options.
Thanks
/Peter
Now it´s time for the winter upgrades and they have to get on.
Is there anyone that have drawings for this kind of adapter or knows if anyone sells them?
I have searched all specialists out there but havent found any yet.
Sandén in Sweden do sell them at high prices but since i'm a student nowadays I want more options.
Thanks
/Peter
12-02-2006, 04:29 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
I'm pretty sure one of your countrymen did a similar mod or maybe someone from up in the north of Europe. Maybe Markus. Use the search and you'll find it.
12-03-2006, 11:53 AM
#3
Former Vendor
Pics you can find here, although adapters themselves are not visible... https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/268211-brake-project-pictures.html
I´ll send you PM when I'm at home, I don't have mesurements in my laptop.
I´ll send you PM when I'm at home, I don't have mesurements in my laptop.
12-03-2006, 04:29 PM
#5
Mike,
They are ~ $650 per piece brand new. So about $1300 for both fronts, another $300 or so for good pads, plus about $100 for lines. I am sure Sunset is less with the cost + 15%, but I have never asked. I aquired my set brand new, but they frequently will show up on ebay carrying about $700 or so for fronts.
I am in the process of having adapters machined to fit the calipers. I had a set that was made via drawings from another member, but they were slightly off. I am assuming it was the machinest and not the drawings, so I am getting a new set made. I will make entire 996TT 13.8" big brake kits available at my cost as soon as I am done and satisfied with its make up. I will also piece all the parts out so the end user can part his own pieces and save some $$$. Will be about $1700 I presume for the kit ready to bolt on, using stock pads. Pagid, Hawk, etc...are all available.
A little more information for those looking at the Big Reds! I too have a set of big reds off of a 993TT/C4S with matching rotors. The 996TT calipers are a leap ahead of the 993 counterparts. They are relatively the same size, maybe slightly larger. They are lighter than the 993 parts. The big reds from 993's are caliper technology from the 80's, where as the monobloc 996 parts are 90's technology. From my use of the 996 parts, they don't feel any different than big reds, but I am sure there are a lot when I finally get on the track with them. The rotors are different as well. The 993TT uses two piece rotors - very nice looking pieces. The upside to using my brackets and the 996TT calipers is that 996TT rotors bolt right on, meaning no custom machined hats or anything. Every part is available through Porsche. They are also quite a bit larger, so I am sure they will resist fade a little better on the track.
Wes
They are ~ $650 per piece brand new. So about $1300 for both fronts, another $300 or so for good pads, plus about $100 for lines. I am sure Sunset is less with the cost + 15%, but I have never asked. I aquired my set brand new, but they frequently will show up on ebay carrying about $700 or so for fronts.
I am in the process of having adapters machined to fit the calipers. I had a set that was made via drawings from another member, but they were slightly off. I am assuming it was the machinest and not the drawings, so I am getting a new set made. I will make entire 996TT 13.8" big brake kits available at my cost as soon as I am done and satisfied with its make up. I will also piece all the parts out so the end user can part his own pieces and save some $$$. Will be about $1700 I presume for the kit ready to bolt on, using stock pads. Pagid, Hawk, etc...are all available.
A little more information for those looking at the Big Reds! I too have a set of big reds off of a 993TT/C4S with matching rotors. The 996TT calipers are a leap ahead of the 993 counterparts. They are relatively the same size, maybe slightly larger. They are lighter than the 993 parts. The big reds from 993's are caliper technology from the 80's, where as the monobloc 996 parts are 90's technology. From my use of the 996 parts, they don't feel any different than big reds, but I am sure there are a lot when I finally get on the track with them. The rotors are different as well. The 993TT uses two piece rotors - very nice looking pieces. The upside to using my brackets and the 996TT calipers is that 996TT rotors bolt right on, meaning no custom machined hats or anything. Every part is available through Porsche. They are also quite a bit larger, so I am sure they will resist fade a little better on the track.
Wes
12-03-2006, 04:50 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
I thought that the GT3 calipers were 6-pot and considerably larger? Surely there is some customizing that needs to be done here?
12-03-2006, 05:18 PM
#7
Former Vendor
There's two different GT3 calipers,MkI and MkII. Earlier is more or less like BR caliper ( as described in Wes' post ) and later is the one in my pictures. Earlier uses 330x34mm disc, later 350x34mm disc. Same adapter applies to both calipers, if matching disc is used ( both GT3's have the same front spindle and hub... ). MkI caliper has excactly the same pistons than BR ( and later 951/928 S4 ) , later is a 6 piston one, although piston area is just the same.
Other than adapters, no need for customizing. Disc offset is smaller than original,so there's plenty of space. Even original backing plate fits, you just have to make the caliper cut-out bigger.
MkI is a good and very affordable choice, prices of discs and pads go sky-high with MkII, which also require 18" wheel. As about the rears, there's no real need to upgrade our present calipers and discs, they're adequate. For example piston sizes are the same than in GT3. To get those GT3 units working I had to make adapters to both calipers and hand brake mechanism, they are quite tricky... But I must admit that 330x28mm discs look good.
If you go to the GT3 front discs with original rears, I'd recommend 5/33 bias valve, but with these I had to switch back to 5/18. I could also use a bit "softer" rear pads.
Fading is now minimal and brakes stay cooler also in track use, although my new wheels are more open than earlier ones and I have 968 cooling ducts and scoops installed.
Other than adapters, no need for customizing. Disc offset is smaller than original,so there's plenty of space. Even original backing plate fits, you just have to make the caliper cut-out bigger.
MkI is a good and very affordable choice, prices of discs and pads go sky-high with MkII, which also require 18" wheel. As about the rears, there's no real need to upgrade our present calipers and discs, they're adequate. For example piston sizes are the same than in GT3. To get those GT3 units working I had to make adapters to both calipers and hand brake mechanism, they are quite tricky... But I must admit that 330x28mm discs look good.
If you go to the GT3 front discs with original rears, I'd recommend 5/33 bias valve, but with these I had to switch back to 5/18. I could also use a bit "softer" rear pads.
Fading is now minimal and brakes stay cooler also in track use, although my new wheels are more open than earlier ones and I have 968 cooling ducts and scoops installed.
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12-03-2006, 05:25 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thanks Pete and Wes. Interested to see the kit when you're done Wes?
12-03-2006, 09:28 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by whakiewes
Maybe Pete can clarify a little better for me. I was just looking around and doing some measuring. My 996TT rotors are 350X34 or there abouts just using a ruler and not a caliper. Our (non MK1) GT3 rotors are also 350X34mm according to everything I can find. The 996TT has different front spindles I thought to fit the AWD, so maybe I have GT3 rotors. FWIW, they were/are $210/$211 per side via Pelican Parts. Brembo makes GT3R rotors that are two piece, 350X34mm as well, $775/each. Alcon and AP Racing have similar parts at similar prices. Now here is my dilemma - I am wondering if my measurements were off because I was using a 996TT rotor instead of a GT3 rotor? I can't find the part number for a non PCCB GT3 rotor to find out. The part number for my rotor comes up every place as a 996 Twin Turbo and C4S rotor, but never as a GT3 rotor. Also, the 6-pot rotors that Pete is using retail for ~$800/each vs. the ~$650 of the big reds. I am pretty confident that those calipers only came on PCCB cars in the US, and the Cayenne turbo (which may be a different variation, but 6-pot as well).
Regardless, here is what I was told when I purchased my parts, and my bill to date. I buy all of my parts through my local Porsche dealer as they do something very similar to Sunset, albeit a little more, but I save shipping. The big red monoblocs are the same as the GT3 (atleast MK1 counterparts), price was $520 per side. Then I asked and the parts guy said that the 996TT rotors were the same as the steel GT3 counterparts and that the parts are interchangable. I measured knowing that what I was looking for was right around 13.8", and the rotors he gave me were. They were $195 each. Maybe he was wrong, and I was as well for not looking. Hmm...time will tell.
Wes
Regardless, here is what I was told when I purchased my parts, and my bill to date. I buy all of my parts through my local Porsche dealer as they do something very similar to Sunset, albeit a little more, but I save shipping. The big red monoblocs are the same as the GT3 (atleast MK1 counterparts), price was $520 per side. Then I asked and the parts guy said that the 996TT rotors were the same as the steel GT3 counterparts and that the parts are interchangable. I measured knowing that what I was looking for was right around 13.8", and the rotors he gave me were. They were $195 each. Maybe he was wrong, and I was as well for not looking. Hmm...time will tell.
Wes
12-03-2006, 09:48 PM
#10
I deleted a couple of my posts after talking with a couple of people and doing a lot more research. I didn't want wrong information present and people to get confused.
I am going to stop referring to GT3 for my setup, as its just 996TT monoblocs. US spec GT3's came with two options, 6-piston, 350mm steel calipers and rotors. The PCCB option was similar 6-piston calipers and ceramic 350mm rotors. Twin Turbos have a different offset than the GT3, thus why my setup was off slightly. So I guess I will have an extra set of adapters available shortly. Regardless, I am ordering GT3 rotors which will bolt right on. The downside is that my TT rotors were ~$200 each and my GT3 rotors will be about $550/each. Anyways, here is a run down of the pricing for anyone interested in all new parts, GT3 setup as Pete has. Calipers are about $800/piece, pads are another $300, rotors are $550/each, mounts will be about $250-$300 to be machined, custom lines will be about $100. That brings the total for all new parts to about $3000 or so for a 6-piston setup. My setup will be slightly less, as A) I don't need 6-pot fronts and B) I already have most of the parts so making new ones would be rediculous for 6-pots. Calipers for 996TT based setup will be $550/each, rotors will be $550/each, mounts $300, lines $100. This saves you about $600, BUT the big red calipers are much more readily available so you can source them used for much less. After finding the cost the GT3 rotors, I am going to look into getting other alternatives. The Brembos for $775, and being 2-piece are a nice alternative. To start they are more expensive, but when you need new rotors they won't be.
So to clarify what I at first was told and thought - 996TT rotors are different than US spec GT3 rotors, as well as calipers. Theoretically since custom mounts are required, you could do anything. You could make mounts for 400mm rotors if you really wanted to. The optimal brake setup would be an entire GT3 front end conversion as Pete did, but it will cost you a bit. There are other alternatives out there that will be less money. Titanium Brembo's are only slightly more, as well as very nice AP racing and Alcon alternatives. I will probably scratch this idea making a GT3 based big brake kit as the cost is so large that I could do a full 6-piston Alcon or Ap racing kit for as much, maybe less.
Wes
I am going to stop referring to GT3 for my setup, as its just 996TT monoblocs. US spec GT3's came with two options, 6-piston, 350mm steel calipers and rotors. The PCCB option was similar 6-piston calipers and ceramic 350mm rotors. Twin Turbos have a different offset than the GT3, thus why my setup was off slightly. So I guess I will have an extra set of adapters available shortly. Regardless, I am ordering GT3 rotors which will bolt right on. The downside is that my TT rotors were ~$200 each and my GT3 rotors will be about $550/each. Anyways, here is a run down of the pricing for anyone interested in all new parts, GT3 setup as Pete has. Calipers are about $800/piece, pads are another $300, rotors are $550/each, mounts will be about $250-$300 to be machined, custom lines will be about $100. That brings the total for all new parts to about $3000 or so for a 6-piston setup. My setup will be slightly less, as A) I don't need 6-pot fronts and B) I already have most of the parts so making new ones would be rediculous for 6-pots. Calipers for 996TT based setup will be $550/each, rotors will be $550/each, mounts $300, lines $100. This saves you about $600, BUT the big red calipers are much more readily available so you can source them used for much less. After finding the cost the GT3 rotors, I am going to look into getting other alternatives. The Brembos for $775, and being 2-piece are a nice alternative. To start they are more expensive, but when you need new rotors they won't be.
So to clarify what I at first was told and thought - 996TT rotors are different than US spec GT3 rotors, as well as calipers. Theoretically since custom mounts are required, you could do anything. You could make mounts for 400mm rotors if you really wanted to. The optimal brake setup would be an entire GT3 front end conversion as Pete did, but it will cost you a bit. There are other alternatives out there that will be less money. Titanium Brembo's are only slightly more, as well as very nice AP racing and Alcon alternatives. I will probably scratch this idea making a GT3 based big brake kit as the cost is so large that I could do a full 6-piston Alcon or Ap racing kit for as much, maybe less.
Wes
12-03-2006, 10:13 PM
#11
I believe these guys might have adapters for the brakes in question. Here is a link to an e-bay auction I was following. You should be able to find their website through it.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...DME:L:RTQ:CA:1
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...DME:L:RTQ:CA:1
12-03-2006, 10:24 PM
#12
I just took a look at their website and it doesn't list much. I know that I saw a website somewhere that sold adapters for Porsche Monoblock calipers. I believe those would be the same as what is required to mount the GT3 calipers. Does anyone know what the website is?
12-04-2006, 03:12 AM
#13
OK so I bought a nice set of GT3/996TT brakes for my 87 951 a couple of months ago.
Now it´s time for the winter upgrades and they have to get on.
Is there anyone that have drawings for this kind of adapter or knows if anyone sells them?
I have searched all specialists out there but havent found any yet.
Sandén in Sweden do sell them at high prices but since i'm a student nowadays I want more options.
Thanks
/Peter
Now it´s time for the winter upgrades and they have to get on.
Is there anyone that have drawings for this kind of adapter or knows if anyone sells them?
I have searched all specialists out there but havent found any yet.
Sandén in Sweden do sell them at high prices but since i'm a student nowadays I want more options.
Thanks
/Peter
i sent drawings to you some time ago, have post scrwed up again
I have a similar set up as Pete have. Those adapters are made here in Finland by local machine shop.Wery high quality. I suppose they will make the front adapters only between 200-300€. The hole setup GT2 front, GT3 rear and special handbrakeshoe adapters are much more expensive.
So at least for the Swedes it should be a cost effective solution to get front adapters here.
Here's a pic of GT2 front & GT3 rear caliper adapters for 951:
12-04-2006, 04:05 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Just to ask, but how much of an advantage do these offer us? I have the Mo30 setup which is off the 928s4 as we know. I also have the 968 underbody air deflectors, s/s braided hoses, use expensive fluid, and have very good PFC pads. So far with this setup I haven't experienced any fade and now with the PFC's I am pulling up very quickly. Now to go up to even the Big Reds/Blacks increases the unsprung weight and some people complain of front lockup and twitchyness. I have abs but what do we really think the advantage is here or is it mainly for the sake of the mods and the looks? At what horsepower increase would we think that an upgrade would be essential for the track?
Patrick
Patrick
Last edited by 333pg333; 12-04-2006 at 07:38 AM.
