whakiewes

Another option that no one has mentioned ever are RS4/RS6 8-piston aluminum calipers. They use the same mounting style as the 996 calipers, monoblock, and huge. The rotors are also two piece so custom hats could be made. That might be cooler than PCCB...14.5" 8-Piston setup. Calipers are $980/each.

Wes

Guns951

MORE INFO PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Olli Snellman

You can get those 8 piston ones directly from Brembo with Brembo labels on them.

Guns951

what about rotors? I thought the GTP kit from brembo was like 14 grand.

whakiewes

Correct, you can buy the 8-piston calipers direct from Brembo. The alternative is that they go for $600-$1000 for a set of Ebay and Ebay.co.uk when they come up for sale.

You can do about anything you want for rotors. The stock RS4 rotors are $600/each, plus custom hats to bolt to 5X130. You could do Brembo two piece 350mm GT3/R rotors at $750 each. Since your doing custom brackets, you could do anything you wanted. Its all in what your budget is. PCCB isn't any more expensive on almost everything EXCEPT rotors.

Wes

jmporsche944

I dont really understand why rotors, with the exception of PCCB, are so expensive. The RS4 rotors are 600 each and are steal? Thats a little crazy... I dont care how big they are

whakiewes

Size and availability. GT3/GT2 rotors are $550/each, Brembo 2-piece replicas are $750/each, RS4/6 rotors are ~$600/each, AP Racing and Alcon rotors of all of the said are in the same prices. 14"+ rotors are really big man. Wilwood makes 13.5-15" rotors for much more reasonable amounts of money, but getting rotor hats machined will make up the difference quickly. I think its more supply/demand than anything though. With only 1000 RS4's, about the same RS6's, similar numbers of GT3/2's there isn't much of an aftermarket such as Zimmerman picking up these rotors, so your going to pay OEM prices. I bet 951 rotors at Porsche would be $300 or more apiece, but since we can get Zimmerman/Brembo replica's, they are significantly cheaper.

Wes

333pg333

I know this is just a discussion, but why would we need such brakes? My impression is that if the standard S4 or even Big Reds are insufficient, what is it that we're trying to haul down from such speeds? If we mod and race our cars most of us would also strip some weight from the car too making the need for huge heavier brakes unnecessary and possibly prone to locking up or imbalance.
Hey it's not a criticism and I have also made enquiries about changing mine, but I went down the path of improving them with great pads, s/s lines, $fluid$, air ducts. I may try PFC rotors as well but to go to massive and v expensive ones for what may be just bling factor is not worth it in my book no matter how sexy they look.

Guns951

How big of a rim do you need to clear Brembo GTR calipers & 380mm discs?

jmporsche944

I see, supply and demand. Good explination. I have big reds on my car right now, I cant really imagine needing more breaking power, which is good, nothing looks cooler then some big brakes though. Those gt2 brakes look sick. Id like to see some other pictures of 944s with different brake kits on it.

whakiewes

18' wheels with the right offsets would be close, but 19's typically. 350mm discs are plenty large and you can still fit 18's as shown.

There is always a need for larger brakes. While you may not feel a need, you can always brake later, harder, and more precisely with larger brakes. You may say...with brakes so large you will just lock up...to an extent you would be correct, but more advance drivers who do not rely on ABS but rather threshold braking will tell you that with any amount of brakes they can make them work. Rubber also plays a roll. Someone with a widebody 951/68 with 285's up to 305 R-Compound rubber probably won't be able to get the car to lock up with stock brakes. There is the feel aspect as well. Larger brakes have a more precise feel as to what they are doing. Go ride in a BMW M3 or such with floating single piston calipers, then hop in your 4-piston Brembo setup...night and day.

So yes, there is a point when you go too big, when there is no need to add the extra weight of larger brakes. The RS series Audi's use such large brakes because they are stopping 2 ton+ cars from 150+ mph. Our 944 series at under 3000 pounds don't NEED something that large. Big reds are plenty of brakes for yours, mine and others. The only disadvantage is that there are lighter, more responsive products on the market. Someone with an engineering background would be better to chime in, but until I can lock up the brakes at over 100mph, I don't have enough brakes .

Wes

P.S. If you have the time and the room, do repetitive 100-10 stops and see how your brakes feel, or just two or three 130-150-10 stops. Then you may rethink how much brakes you have.

RolexNJ

-Patrick, you and I talked a lot, based on your application, the cost to benefit isn't justified for Ceramic or Brembos, period. Big Reds are more than enough. Ask that Pro guy you are going to drive with if he even thinks for "your" application and the track you mostly go on, if he thinks you need more than Big Reds? I'll bet on what he says too my pal!



-Guns. Dont even get me going, you know where I stand and that "extensive" information I shared with you. And look who the source was from? You dont need PCCBs, period. If anything, if anything, I would consider GT-3 brakes. Although they weigh more, they are bigger/better for the speeds you will do, hence, "your" application, period. But you make up for the weight gain because youre running a stripped car, hence, you'll have less unsprung weight.



-Jeff, you are a weekend warrior and will maybe do some DEs, right? With Big Reds and other complementing components, you dont need anything else. Unless you just want bling, you are wasting the money my fellow NJ neighbor. Save it for ther go-fast parts. And why do Ceramic cost so much? Because it is a very, very expensive composite material and is hard to process in the manufacturing process. Hence, it is an expensive commodity. Do you know what happens if you get some gravel on those rotors? They are toast, and that can happen even on the street. Replacement costs? Have $7 to $10K? Stick with BR.




I'm sorry to be so vocal, but there is way, way, way to much hype for the need for PCCB brakes. For 99.9 % 944T owners, they arent cost justified, nor, will you realize the full potential of them. First alone the intial cost is absurd, let alone replacement cost, whether it is ceramic or iron. Second, based on the applications here, Big Reds are "more" than sufficient for the people on Rennlist, period. Unless your driving skills are at a Pro level, you do a ton of DEs or races a years, have a huge amount of money for the initial set-up and on-going replacements costs, Big Reds are the best ROI.

How do I conclude this? Ive raced for years, and used every composite, from iron, to carbon fiber, to ceramic, to BRs. I analyzed my brakes during scrub in sessions with tires, during a driver change, and after a race. To see the wear patterns, amount of wear; to understand which rotors/pads were optimals for each track, the temps, suspension set-ups. To do what? So that we could understand what was optimal for the next track or season, but also to ascertain knowledge to quantify, but as for me, to save my brakes during the races. So yes I do have first hands on experience for years. Still think I'm nuts? Go and ask JME, Chris White, Lindsey Racing, if they think you need PCCB, if your applications are what most of us do here, and that's "not" full-time racing, let alone have unlimited amounts of money. Sorry if I seem so harsh here, it is just because this buzz word, which has been out for years and Ferrari markets the hell out of too, even before Porsche did, people are eager not to inquire or learn, but jump on the band wagon. If this part was a BOV for $50 bucks, who cares, do it, buy them by the case. But you are talking about $1000s of dollars, even "if" you think you can go and source parts cheaper here and there, it is still a very racing proposition compared to a set of BRs. Second, you'll never "fully" utilize overall what the brakes can do, period.

Ok, I'll take a deep breath and stop now. So can we go and do a GB buy now on PCCBs?

evil 944t

[QUOTE=RolexNJ] I would consider GT-3 brakes. Although they weigh more, they are bigger/better for the speeds you will do, hence, "your" application, period. But you make up for the weight gain because youre running a stripped car, hence, you'll have less unsprung weight. QUOTE]

Rolex, FYI, don't take this the wrong way but a stripped car does not mean less "unsprung" weight. He would need lighter wheels,tires, brakes,rotors etc. to have less "unsprung weight".

333pg333

That's exactly what I meant. I wasn't looking at putting on bigger brakes, I was wondering why anyone would need to spend so much cash on something that for 99.9% is totally not needed. There seems to be a bit of push from some quarters to go up to bigger and bigger brakes but as you say the S4's or Big Reds/Blacks are fine. I'm happy with mine a.t.m. if I need to go bigger in the future it won't be ceramic that's for sure.

Olli Snellman

I have GT2 front & GT3 rear calipers. They are lighter than 951 S setup. Only additional weight comes from bigger front rotors. When you add all together this set up weights about the same as the original setup. You must remeber orginal setup is over 20 years old design and monoblock ones are much younger (lighter design).
Good pads cost a lot for BR's or GT2/GT3 calipers. What we have found out GT2/GT3 combo you can have much lower operating temperaturs. This seems to effect also to pads lasting quite a lot. Top quality pads for GT2 front GT3 rear caliper setup cost about 500€... Don't ask how do i know.

With Monoblock brakes you can get rid of those stainless pad sliding plates, which usually bends and stuck brake pads. There is not necesserily any need for these brakes, in most cases it's just the "bling-bling" factor. These cars are our hobby, so it's nice to build them. With these brakes iam going to have a 3.0 l turbo engine and six speed transmission and i don't necesserily need neither of these. The other alternative is to keep our 951's bone stock, which would be a good alternative