I'm a huge fan of GT's as they are a hoot to drive. It Is the best car of the three. (edit) not to offend - in my opinion!

But since I have a black GT already, I'd throw down for that blue one with the two tone interior. Super cool with the root wood and in good condition. The Sport Seats are a clincher for me...

I've been unable to close any deal in Europe. Others have had excellent luck, enjoy the chase!

 

I agree with you Bertrand. If this was a verified cold start after sitting for over 48 hours, I wouldn't be concerned...so long as consumption isn't an issue, and that's confirmed as well. And I might be wrong here, but healthy compression isn't a direct correlation to oil consumption... especially in a GTS

 

I never saw a cold start with this car, as he picked me up from my hotel in the car. The start in the video was after the car sat for 30mins in his driveway and you can see in the video the car fails to start at first attempt, and it is upon 2nd crank it puffs black smoke for a second or two. Then when I drove it, it started fine with no hesitation or smoke. All warm starts.

He also has never measured the crank movement tolerance for the thrust bearing. His Porsche Centre told him it was not necessary until after the engine has done over 300K km. I feel though I should insist on a measure being done for PPI?

 

Yes, insist to have the movement of the crank checked.
Should be good but it's always an important thing to check.
Good luck!

 

I see a lot of Auto S4s changing hands with no crank-end-play (CEP) check and for non-trivial money. Back last century when a not-low-miles S4 auto was $5k I guess it was no big deal if it turned out to be a paperweight.

If it’s got 50k-miles or less, all records, and none of them show torque tube or transaxle service, then *I* would not worry about the thrust bearing.

If it has 75K-miles or more or has records that show torque tube or transaxle work, then buying it without a CEP check is a gamble.

Yaw’ll new folks do some archeology here; we used to have at least one newbie every year that would show up with a thrust-bearing-failure car.

The head tech at my local Porsche dealer touched his first 928 last year and diagnosed TBF on an ~70k-mile ‘89.

And then don’t forget the guy that paid good money for a BaT car a couple of years ago and then took it to MrMerlin who found the flex plate deformed into the shape of the flywheel.

No, I don’t know what the odds are.

 

That is the sort of info I was after This car has zero documented history prior to 2019 apart from service book stamps, and currently done 120K km. It also falls into the example you mentioned above as the current owner did have the transmission out and overhauled as a recommendation by Porsche due to lack of history, done in 2020. I think a CEP check is going to be prudent.

 

I agree. While it "takes work" to kill an otherwise good thrust bearing in two years and a couple thousands miles, I have seen too many 928s screwed up in ways that "takes work" to discount the possibility.

Note that there is a specific procedure for the CEP check. It's well documented on threads here. It must be done at the flywheel with the flex plate "loose" from the drive shaft. We have seen CEP checks done by "mechanics" not familiar with the 928 who did the check from the front of the motor without loosening the flex plate pinch clamp bolt thereby not allowing the flywheel/crank assembly to float freely in the block. This type of check does not result in a good measurement since both front and rear flex plates and accessory belts "fight" the measurement process.

And - to all new folks - remember that the CEP check applies to late-model Automatics, not 5-speeds, where "late-model" means '87-'95. The '85-'86 (IIRC(*)) autos *can* suffer the same fate due to the removal of the circlip and grove from the driveshaft but that appears to be very uncommon.

(*) I don't keep the pre-'87 knowledge "in my head", no doubt those more inculcated with driveshaft knowledge can provide the specific pre-'87 info.

 

Thanks...

I passed on this procedure to the current owner to see if their Porsche center in Germany would do it:

Drop the exhaust at the manifolds.
Remove the bell housing bottom cover.
Install a dial indicator on the rear side of the forward Drive Shaft Hub.
Loosen The hub clamping screw and watch for hub movement.
After the pinch bolt is loose then put the dial indicator on the flywheel, (not the flexplate).
Pry the flywheel back and forth to check the crankshaft end play. The spec for later engines is 0.06mm to 0.19mm. Wear limit is 0.4mm. If the end play is more than 0.4mm, then there is "Thrust Bearing Failure".
Install a new bolt and torque.
re-assemble as per above.

I just spoke to the seller's Porsche Centre in Germany, who advised they have never done a CEP check, and although they could do this check for me, they: 1. don't want to remove the exhaust manifolds saying they could crack or something, and then they will have to pull the engine? 2. The work to check the CEP without removing the exhaust manifolds can be done, but the work will take a full day, which they don't have time for until 2 or 3 weeks.

I then spoke to my local Porsche Centre I use here in Sweden, and gave them the VIN. They advised that they have too never done a CEP as far as they can remember on any 928, and there is no exact service protocol they could find easily outlining how to. What they did find however is a service technical advice from Porsche with notes about the crank bearings including thrust bearing issues and replacements, but this for engines up to but not including M28/50. There is no service tech advice at all mentioning the thrust bearing for the M28/50 that they could find. They did however say that checking the CEP on an M28/20 for example, would take quite a few hours.

I know this is getting a little off-topic of the 'sales' side of this thread, but I really want to buy this car and now having reservations. It most likely is an over-reaction on my part, as the car has has so much spent on it... but even Porsche Centre in Germany said that not knowing the car's history prior to 2019 and why it sat for so many years does beg some questions and raise some scrutiny.

 

I was the one that sold the car to Malcomb. Sean Ratts did the usual work on car including timing belt, cam gears, X pipe, etc. Here are some additional pictures and a video of starting the car.

 

Wow how time flies.....here she was 13 years ago but only 9k miles

 

I doubt there's more than one or three current employees of any Porsche Center in Europe that have worked on a 928.

As above: head tech, 24-years working for Porsche, at my nearest dealer hadn't seen a 928 until last year.

It is more-correct to write "disconnect the catalytic converter from the exhaust manifolds." Six nuts, six bolts, some washers, one big nut for the air pump down-pipe.

More detail:
- unplug 02 sensor under fuse panel. Push out sensor-side lead almost all the way.
- remove small heat shield above converter on right side below hole for 02 sensor (makes it possible to re-seat 02 sensor when done.)
- provide ready support for exhaust. Disconnect mid-exhaust hanger if so equipped.
- remove nuts, bolts for converter at manifolds, and disconnect air pump pipe.
- allow exhaust to droop a few inches and support.
- remove lower bell housing

The rest of your procedure is fine.

The hardest part is figuring out how/where to clamp the dial indicator to get measurement repeatability.

Manifold removal is not required or indicated. See above.

Even if the manifolds need to be removed - which they don't - it can be done with the engine in place. I've done it.

Three hours. Four if they are paranoid. Five if they have to futz with the dial indicator.

I always take 3 to 5 measurements and report the min, max, average and all measurements in the invoice. 3 measurements if the end play is well within spec. 5 if the first 3 indicate that the bearing is "getting close."

If they've never worked on a 928 then that's easy to say. If it's been 20 years since that center saw a 928 then it's easy to say. Even when the 928 was available new, that center probably saw a 928 once or twice per year. How many were ever sold in Sweden? I'll bet the units of that number are "dozen" and it has one digit maybe two but closer to one that three.

 

Porsche Center Hamburg has a fee of 230 € per hour and it‘s a very expensive coffee from a nice looking hostess for an clueless workshop in terms of the 928.

 

LOL. True! I know where this 928 has been taken (PC Hannover), the tech there is a specialist for classic Porsches, and has done 100% of the work on this car since 2019 - all €26K. That is after they give 20% off parts and labour since it is a 'classic' registered Porsche. My PC here in Sweden gives me 30% off labour only, but actually makes servicing my 944S2 not far off what a non-Porsche shop would charge.

 

If you buy the car and drive it on wheels home Jochen from the Landsharks can do a after purchase inspection.
He has his shop near Bremerhaven. He‘s only doing 928. Maybe good invested money.

www.Landsharks.de

 

Thanks... what you say about the Porsche centres seeing 928s is most likely true.

I just spoke to the 'classic' Porsche specialist in Hannover again to verify more work that was done. In 2020 they had the transmission out and refurbished - he said it was due to several leaks, and upon disassemble they also found some parts that were best replaced, but the gears were all fine. I then asked if it would be possible to re-check the tightness of the pinch bolts since the re-install, and he said it was, but would require removing the transmission again, and would have to allow 8hrs. I don't know... on one hand the car has had a huge amount spent on it, and has a perfect compression test, etc, but then I get reservations on hearing how hard it would be to check the pinch bolts again. Even if he reassures me they were torqued correctly.