mark kibort

Jim,

1. you dont race , do i dont expect you to understand, but racing is not about how many are in your class. its not even about how many cars are behind you or if there is a couple way in front. ITS ABOUT PUTTING and KEEPING the car at the edge. its like this in many sports, but nothing like auto racing. consistency like golf, and feirse adrenaline competition like boxing or football. running up to the corkscrew at 120mph and pushing every lap to go 1 foot deeper and not pull a zanardi!! gong to the hair pin at 130mph and have 3-4 seconds to make a U turn and not let someone on the inside pass............ that is a HUGE adrenaline pump. Or my favorite, having a GT3 991 pass you down the straight going through 6 sequential gears , only to out brake them and get them on the inside of the turn and stick a pass! thats fun Jim!
Its about the guy you are trying to pass or keep from passing you. in the early days, the racing was better than most pro racing, It wasnt unusual for 4 -5 guys to have the lead in any race. that was fun.. but , as with most races, in any league, its about your battle with the other guy.. I could care less what class im in or he is in.... because on the track its a battle.
Its not DE time here where , its like boxing, sparing, you can just quit or say you werent trying, etc. its all out and its 30mins of racing (or 40 or 50) where you cant let up for one 1/10 of a second/
THATS what im talking about.

In other words, I likke the big fields, because it adds strategy to the race, when you start lapping cars, but the main reason i and others go out there, is for the battle! its the most adrenaline you will ever have in any sport and its why i keep doing it. PLUS it is so fun to do it in a car that everyone says cant.

I don't really need the stroker or the intake in the HP/weight regulated fields and classes, but it puts me in classes that have more exciting cars. rigth now, GT2 SCCA is a great field , made up of nascar and cup cars porsche, but ITE , now is just to in the race, i could care less if i win the race in class. it has no meaning and so does the little plaque that i usually toss in the garbage when i get home when i win small fields with little competition. I run with the GT2, SP, or any other car that is running in the 1:34 to 1:38 range. the faster cars i hope get tired during the race, because they do, and once i get around someone, i might be able to fight them off til the end

2. you need to read. i went .5 second faster, no 4 seconds faster than my best on newer used tires. 1:35.7 vs 1:36.5. however, it proves the grade of used tires over the last 5 years as only allowed me to go 1 second slower. (1:37) .. ii suppose with a brand new set which i havent even run yet, it will be .5 second faster still

3. Now, some perspective on "classes". yes, you cant cheat in ITE, but what happens in WCGT Jim? no cheating in GT2 scca or ST2 NASA , or GT2 PCA/POC. its all hp or weight or legacy rules.
by the way,, pros have been racing with 2 to 4 cars in a class for MANY years. ALMS and now grand am... this happens a lot. the seat time i get and the level of racing is not much different in our group 3 races. many pros have come out to run with us and have fun too. many tiimes we get the entire porsche cup car GT3 field to run in our group... i pick on a few of the back packers in that group and have a ball ...

4. do yourself a favor of what it takes to run a 1:35 out at laguna. Mark did what on DOTs with my weight in world challenge? 1:34? , when we ran head to head in the GTGP, he was on slicks and ran 1:33.7 ..... to do a 1:35.xx with the car as modified as mine is, im real happy about. especially doing 4 laps in a row in the same pesonal best range. go ahead, ask anyone in the know like mark or Joe, what it takes to run a 928 at this speed at the track and in a race!

mark kibort

But its ok for you to Greg?
Greg, i race and have for many years .. those that know me and race against me can judge me. you are just bitter for some reason, and i hope you can get over that . I dont know why, but you are.
you are so funny about making fun of SCCA racing.... the winners of the last runnoffs i ran in with All SORTS of problems which is rare, (another story) The top guys go to SCCA WCGTS and win races . wiin, win money too! this is not the bush league. Ive been in 7 pro races and the driving is as good if not better than most of the drivers i saw there.
PLUS, in any racing organization, you get a mix of talent. you think a porsche cup race is the best drivers around? most of the field is running those cars 3 seconds faster than their potential. its a feidl that if you have $200,000, you can be a hero and race somewhere between 1:29 and 1:34 at laguna (times for comparison only). go to alll the races in a season, and not break, and you get a HUGE trophy , and a season racing bill of over $100k.
the pure drivers, only care about the battles along the way and how well and consistently they push the car during the races.

so, as far as the intake, again, all im saying is that there is HUGE room for improvement by using something else pre-made or making something that is a bolt on that is custom. you have done great work here. im sure the gains on the stock S4 willl be greater than jims and will do nice things to modified cars like my old Holbert motor at 335rwhp with headers , or my curent motor with 375rwhp . im saying 30 hp on stock and 60hp on modified engines.

anyway, see you at the next POC event at willow springs , where illl be racing in GT2 class among the porsches! alll HP to weigiht regulated. im sure my old car will do fine and there will be some great racing, even better than the racing i had the first time i raced there and usually everytime i race!

Its late, i just had to put that down, as i am geeked up to drive tomorrow on the newer tires and chase the cool 991 cup cars!

Imo000

This question is for everybody except Kibort and Mongo: Would bolting up an early 32V intake be better for a higher than stock displacement S4? Only asking because the picture above reminds me of those manifolds.

GlenL

Again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect

Mark: At what point does everyone telling you you're wrong create the slightest doubt in your mind?


Imo: I don't think it bolts up to the heads.

V2Rocket

It'd be interesting to try the S3 intake on a big S4+ engine, and comparing the stock "tanks" to larger tanks (larger tank for higher rpm breathing)...could make the tank a bit bigger if not having to clear the "accordion pipes".

Porsche said all the S3 runners are equal length, and I know the plenum "stubs" vary but using my highly-calibrated piece of string the long runners are between 14.5-15" and the short runners...3 are 10" and one is about 7.5", from gasket face to "rubber hose coupler lip"

GregBBRD

I've build 6.5 liter S3 engines, with cams, bigger valves, etc.

The intake system performs about equal to the S4 intake....no amazing losses or increases.

GregBBRD

Like anything in life, constant repetition makes up for skill.

I think you turn respectable laps times in your small pond of tracks you've turned a zillion laps at. That doesn't make you a great driver....just a practiced driver.

Mark Anderson could go to any track in the country and turn respectable laps times, with-in one practice session.

He's a great driver.

The sad thing is that your ego, swimming around in your tiny ponds, blurs reality.

If you can come down to Willow, with your brand new tires, and turn 1:25's....like you should (without killing yourself, blowing up the engine, or crashing the car) then you will have credibility.

Of course, like your previous visits to Willow, they will be timing your lap times with an egg timer. However, I'm sure reality will once again be trumped by your ego....and you will rationalize your inevitable failure with some lame excuse.

You are a medium fish in a tiny pond.....not even a big fish. Always have been. Always will be. Get over it.

Back to ignore and peaceful bliss....I'll pay more attention to your distortions of reality, when you get to Willow!

James Bailey

Kibort your other thread.....Racing at Laguna CLEARLY says 1:39 to 1:35 .... 4 seconds with a tire change or was that another Kibort.. ?

mark kibort

I was thinking the same . (even if you didn't ask me). but I think greg answers this . wonder why? tube diameters?

I think the main loses are the diameters and the sharp angles

Greg... when you race for as long as I have... you tend to view all turn the same. Mark and I in the same car at any track, will turn the same times (sans him in his car or me in mine) we have done this before and its never going to change. most all good drivers can drive a car at the limit. the difference is what I say, judgment in traffic and racing strategy.
I can prove this anyway you want.

as far as willow springs. marks BEST time was a 1:24, with 200 more hp, real slicks, wings, splitters, motons, 100lbs lighter.
remember when he was testing for WCGT, he could only run 1:30 with the toyos! (egg timer time?)
my previous times to willow springs I had 240hp and I had to bolt in 300lbs of ballast in to the car to run with the totally unfair rules burdening the 928 vs the 911s . but I didn't care, because we still had some great racing . that was 16 years ago, and 1:33 is not that bad of a time for that car , on REAL crappy tires too.

thanks for the kind of back handed complement about the lap times at laguna. you know those times are fast, and you don't see cars scaring up those times as old as my 928 is, ever!! this is 30 year old technology with 375rwhp on used tires. that's the pride we all can share here.
Ill do the same proportional times at any track, by the way. except willow springs. its known to be a very unique track.

and yes, im scared because of you , about the oiling and blowing up. I hope you are not right. what did you say, no stock oiled 928 has ever survived blow 1:32 for a weekend? we shall see!

you didn't read it carefully enough. 1:39 was my first session out. wasn't a direct comparison to a personal best. new brakes, shaking the car down... making sure everything was ok.. lots of traffic, not pushing. could have pushsed a little harder and got into the 1:38s I guess. put the new tires on and ran 1:35.7, (1:36 vs 1:39 ) is about 3 seconds and it was very different. the car was perfect (well, still a little more push than I would like, but night and day from normal). well that's the cost and benefits of new tires! (or newer tires, as I still haven't broken out the new tires yet, that's for willow springs)
So anyway, my best is 1:36.1, and ive done a 1:36.5 and usually 1:37 every race , but a few, but its been 5 years since that 1:36, so it was nice to put on the newer tires and get to that time again. like I said , I was wondering if it was me or the car!

BTW it was a great day of racing, but the field was a little small. hung with the 991 GT3s and the EXPs for a few laps. Im sure they were surprised to see this old dog in their mirrors for 2 laps, but they got a way and I ended up battling with the transam car of Robert davis. great race, lots of fun with him but wish there were more cars.

to add what I was saying, the most fun of racing at this level, is the battle and the strategy of keeping someone behind you or trying to get around someone. its always different and it always keeps the adrenaline flowing. you need to check the ego, keep calm and not let emotions get the best of you. this is racing at its best and when you get by,, and you know the guy is pissed, (like legalized road rage), you come in the pits and get out of the car and high five some guy you barely know and say, "man that was FUN!"..." thanks for not hitting me when we were at turn 7....etc."
all that anger and competitiveness turns into friendship and great sporting memories.....

you see Jim, you just don't get that time trialing.... sometimes in DE, but not usually.

James Bailey

OK so how many cars were in your class? where did you finish? and how many cars TOTAL in the group and where did you finish? Or was your "race " just dicing with a transam car and is he in your class ? pretty simple questions.

mark kibort

Jim,
it was a pretty sorry weekend for competition.. i was hanging with the cup cars for the first few laps and that one second differential was too much to hang ... so i got really bored. waited for the transam to catch up as he started from the back and then had some fun. He was not in class.
this was the weakest attendance on record for a SCCA event. had it not been for the two cup cars and the exp cars (which i beat 3 of the 4 of them), i probably wouldnt have gone on track. this is not representiive of the racing i engage of.. it was just one of those weekends where no one showed up . bummer. but there were a few cars in class (ITE) but i won, but nothing to write about except the full support muller 400+hp lancer and 400rwhp porsche 914 6 turbo and a couple of other cars were behind. again, it wasnt a good representation of SCCA racing. here is a pic of the new flat plane V8 mustang!! a beast and its a street car 500hp 5.2 liter!


cant help that no one showed.
a typical race is something like this: to see if you think this is fun.

this had about 12 cars in class and near 40 cars in the field.


or nasa as guests in the AV8supercar race also about 12 cars in class, 45cars in race. spent time dicing with faster class transam car

Strosek Ultra

Think this is what Mark Kibort like for his engine. ATPower 55mm ITBs made in the UK. Shaftless design for maximum airflow.
Åke

mark kibort

thats some nice technology. I wonder the gains over a big throttle body and plennum.

Ducman82

Very snappy throttle response for one......

mark kibort

I bet !! lots of complexity though.

I still believe we can modify something already out there though.