mark kibort

not needed.. just keep it simple... if the mis matched mess worked on the GT, im sure the S4 will have good gains as well... 60hp for a mismatched intake im sure will work fine on an S4 or 6.4 liter. optimal is not a luxury most of us can afford.
lets take the first step and get SOMETHING rolling for replacing the stock intake!

Mongo

I think runner size and diameter is very important for the velocity of air flow in the cylinders. Assuming that Greg's manifold uses bigger runners because the intake side of the heads were ported, there will be flow issues when adapting this to stock, un-ported heads.

Greg is correct that the runners may need to be smaller if they are for a 5.0 motor, and should match the intake ports. For the taper, I don't see any reason to change it.

GregBBRD

Enough fricking dreaming!

Just for ***** and giggles, let's go through the financial reality of a new intake, just for the dreamers....so everyone can understand what is involved.

The numbers are the costs to produce....some of which are still just estimates, but certainly with-in 20%, either way. These prices are for pieces produced in the volume required for CNC people to program, design the tool paths, get the material, and turn on their machines.....a minimum of an initial run of approximately 10 units.

Intake stubs to heads: $1200.00

Injectors: $400-$600

Dampers, fuel pressure regulator: $500

Fuel rails and mounts for rails: $250.00

Plumbing: $250

Throttle body: $500

Idle stabilizer $350

Throttle bellcrank, attachment, and cable mount, with new cable $500.

Throttle switch and mounting for switch: $150+

Runners: $1000.00

Plenum "roof" $1200

Lower plenum: $750

Air filter system, with "Y" to throttle body $1000

Total estimate to produce (cost): $8150ea. Total investment $81,000.

Add in an incredibly low profit margin of 30% (incredibly low by any manufacturing standards....with zero ceiling for resellers) Cost to consumers: $11,750.

Note that this initial cost to produce and sell does not include any time to engineer, test, draw, solid model, etc.

How many of you would like to order one and place a deposit? It sure would help my cash flow in making the first 10 units! And since I will be using your dollars for production costs, I can certainly reduce the profit margin to a meager 20%....so call the initial buy in at $10,000.

Exactly!

Now you should understand the problem.

Like Jim Bailey said, he questions my sanity in doing this.

I certainly would not be undertaking this project if I didn't have my own agenda and my own goals....the payback for all the engineering, design, and test time is....well.....

NEVER!

bureau13

Just for grins, how fast does that come down with more units? Say 100 units, same profit margin?

(I'm not suggesting that it's practical to find 100 people who would pay for this, but while we're here in fantasyland... )

Imo000

Using the "we" and "might" in the same sentence? It's either we or not we....there is no might.

If there is a we, whom exactly are these "we" s? Or are you hiding behind the "we" because you are too embarrassed to say "I"? You know, like a " We don't like your kind" statement.

GregBBRD

No idea...wouldn't even bother to think along these terms or ask.

I don't have the capital to invest in 100 units....even if the costs dropped by $400%.

I'm a mechanic, not a trader....

mark kibort

obviously, not a mathematician either.

mark kibort

im proud to say, "I".. but there is a we... you just need to open your eyes and stop being such a D--K!

mark kibort

there might be a lower cost direction.

and my idea of using carl's type of lower intake
$1200
his trumpets
$500
his fuel rails (or finding a way to use the stock fuel rail would be good)
$500
fabrication of a box around it al
$1500 (for labor and material)
used lower plennum, throttle body and MAF and airbox
(free)
use existing throttle cable (free) (anderson /fan used a lot of the stock stuff)
(marginal costs)

for a 30 second look total of about $4k

Mongo

You may want to look at other options for a TB. Perhaps even something from GM or Ford that can be adapted using some aluminum tubing to our factory airboxes.

mark kibort

i agree. could work

Mongo

I think a TB with 85-90mm diameter may be sufficient flow for a stock 5.0. I don't know about anything larger like a 6.5L stroker 928.

mark kibort

stock throttle body is 85-90mm.
anderson hogged out his stock throttle body and hogged out the intake and got 0 gains. the losses are ALL in the intake plennum and runners.
i remember when the 500hp vets of wcgt were given 40% restrictors. their straight line speed was only reduced by 3mph at sears point ( Mclclure's vet)
the gains are in the intake.. lots to be made there!

Mongo

God I know I am going to get flamed for this, but there are universal 90mm throttle bodies on ebay. Could be worth a try for a prototype. Of course, by default, an adapter will need to be made to fit the 928 TPS.

GregBBRD

That $500 is for an "off the shelf" throttle body. My cost. If I purchase $5000 worth, I can get a 20% discount.

I'm doubting I'll need 10 throttle bodies anytime soon....and I'd like to do some more testing before jumping off that ledge.