Gain 100HP with an intake manifold change?? - Cross post from Ferrari Chat
#212
not much room under the intake carl makes. it would screw up the bell spacing. it would have to be some kind of adapter on the back I'm thinking for the MAF, maybe on the sides?
#213
Former Sponsor
Without taking him off ignore, I'm going to assume that the "real" Mark Kibort just stood up.....again.
Anyone here have any questions about why I say he will never get one of my intakes?
Anyone here have any questions about why I say he will never get one of my intakes?
#214
#215
Rennlist Member
Above 6,000 also.
No, but it was after.
Which was AFTER Devek L2 headers AND Louie Ott's best shot at a dual catless 2.5" exhaust, AND bigger cams, AND many years of SHARKTUNING!! (the "before", not the "after"- that was an hour.)
LISTEN UP!! I am not going to say this again (for a while):
These motors are wonderfully balanced, everything is optimized around the factory's horsepower target, which was 0.9x whatever the then-current 911 was producing, depending on which conspiracy theory you subscribe to.
THE POINT IS THIS: The intake, the cams, the exhaust, all optimized for 316 bhp for the S4. Change the exhaust, you still have intake and cams limiting power. Change the intake, you've still got the cams and exhaust limiting power.
Mark Kibort, YOUR starting point is a 6.5L stroker with good cams and exhaust, OF COURSE the intake is holding you back, that's the only thing that you didn't change. And all of your yammering has NOTHING to do with stock engines. If you think it is simple, do it.
We don't need no stinking MAF's. Our GT hasn't had one for about five years now, its running the Sharktuner "Alpha" system (precision TPS compensated for pressure and temperature).
LISTEN UP!! I am not going to say this again (for a while):
These motors are wonderfully balanced, everything is optimized around the factory's horsepower target, which was 0.9x whatever the then-current 911 was producing, depending on which conspiracy theory you subscribe to.
THE POINT IS THIS: The intake, the cams, the exhaust, all optimized for 316 bhp for the S4. Change the exhaust, you still have intake and cams limiting power. Change the intake, you've still got the cams and exhaust limiting power.
Mark Kibort, YOUR starting point is a 6.5L stroker with good cams and exhaust, OF COURSE the intake is holding you back, that's the only thing that you didn't change. And all of your yammering has NOTHING to do with stock engines. If you think it is simple, do it.
We don't need no stinking MAF's. Our GT hasn't had one for about five years now, its running the Sharktuner "Alpha" system (precision TPS compensated for pressure and temperature).
#216
Former Sponsor
There's only a few short questions that probably should be answered:
Two?
Three?
More than that?
#217
#218
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
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[QUOTE=jcorenman;13114206]Above 6,000 also. .....
QUOTE]
right just the nice increase from 4,500 to 6,500 is awesome usable horsepower when you really are pushing it !!!
QUOTE]
right just the nice increase from 4,500 to 6,500 is awesome usable horsepower when you really are pushing it !!!
#219
Rennlist Member
Above 6,000 also.
No, but it was after.
Which was AFTER Devek L2 headers AND Louie Ott's best shot at a dual catless 2.5" exhaust, AND bigger cams, AND many years of SHARKTUNING!! (the "before", not the "after"- that was an hour.)
LISTEN UP!! I am not going to say this again (for a while):
These motors are wonderfully balanced, everything is optimized around the factory's horsepower target, which was 0.9x whatever the then-current 911 was producing, depending on which conspiracy theory you subscribe to.
THE POINT IS THIS: The intake, the cams, the exhaust, all optimized for 316 bhp for the S4. Change the exhaust, you still have intake and cams limiting power. Change the intake, you've still got the cams and exhaust limiting power.
Mark Kibort, YOUR starting point is a 6.5L stroker with good cams and exhaust, OF COURSE the intake is holding you back, that's the only thing that you didn't change. And all of your yammering has NOTHING to do with stock engines. If you think it is simple, do it.
We don't need no stinking MAF's. Our GT hasn't had one for about five years now, its running the Sharktuner "Alpha" system (precision TPS compensated for pressure and temperature).
No, but it was after.
Which was AFTER Devek L2 headers AND Louie Ott's best shot at a dual catless 2.5" exhaust, AND bigger cams, AND many years of SHARKTUNING!! (the "before", not the "after"- that was an hour.)
LISTEN UP!! I am not going to say this again (for a while):
These motors are wonderfully balanced, everything is optimized around the factory's horsepower target, which was 0.9x whatever the then-current 911 was producing, depending on which conspiracy theory you subscribe to.
THE POINT IS THIS: The intake, the cams, the exhaust, all optimized for 316 bhp for the S4. Change the exhaust, you still have intake and cams limiting power. Change the intake, you've still got the cams and exhaust limiting power.
Mark Kibort, YOUR starting point is a 6.5L stroker with good cams and exhaust, OF COURSE the intake is holding you back, that's the only thing that you didn't change. And all of your yammering has NOTHING to do with stock engines. If you think it is simple, do it.
We don't need no stinking MAF's. Our GT hasn't had one for about five years now, its running the Sharktuner "Alpha" system (precision TPS compensated for pressure and temperature).
that means pulling off all the "stuff" (headers cams and sharktune) leaves would remove 60hp off that dyno run.. ahhhh, i dont think so.. but hey, its just my "informed" prediction. and guys, i think i have as much experience with bolt ons here as anyone.
so the bottom line is that the intake works , and it will be slightly more benefit to the stock S4 than Jim says, but heck, he is not much off my prediction.. diddnt i say in an earlier post that the inake is worth 30hp on a stock S4 and 50hp with all the other stuff on it? Jim says 25hp, so whats 5hp among friends.
Here is what i said:
disclaimer: i am NOT saying anyting i say is "fact". i say it with reference to other information found free on the web, on the track, and here on the list.
my theorys are just theories. so let me re-state my thoughts.
on a bone stock S4, i bet the intake gets to 300rwhp (cats , everything stock)
or 25-30hp
on a header and 85 cam or GT cam 928, gets to 360rwhp
additional 50-60hp
on a stroker with no other work besides the cam and headers. also 50-60hp
and on the stroker that has the big valve heads and more radical cam im saying 80hp . (after all, even Mark andersons and Joes 520rwhp was really only 505hp, as the 520hp was noise ossilations on the dyno plot when the dyno run was ending)
So, Jim, ill try and if you do to be a little more respectful here.
Mk
my theorys are just theories. so let me re-state my thoughts.
on a bone stock S4, i bet the intake gets to 300rwhp (cats , everything stock)
or 25-30hp
on a header and 85 cam or GT cam 928, gets to 360rwhp
additional 50-60hp
on a stroker with no other work besides the cam and headers. also 50-60hp
and on the stroker that has the big valve heads and more radical cam im saying 80hp . (after all, even Mark andersons and Joes 520rwhp was really only 505hp, as the 520hp was noise ossilations on the dyno plot when the dyno run was ending)
So, Jim, ill try and if you do to be a little more respectful here.
Mk
by the way Jim, what was the deal with the flappy? you said "no, but it was after" . ????? curious.
"Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) is a severe condition in which two or more distinct identities, or personality states, are present in—and alternately take control of—an individual. The person also experiences memory loss that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness."
?
?
I would think that the valley could be expanded vs his picture with a larger single box that is higher up and makes room for the TB with the MAF coming out the rear. we certainly dont need the air box, but it would be nice if it could fit
#220
Rennlist Member
[B]LISTEN UP!! snip....
THE POINT IS THIS: The intake, the cams, the exhaust, all optimized for 316 bhp for the S4. Change the exhaust, you still have intake and cams limiting power. Change the intake, you've still got the cams and exhaust limiting power.
Mark Kibort, YOUR starting point is a 6.5L stroker with good cams and exhaust, OF COURSE the intake is holding you back, that's the only thing that you didn't change. And all of your yammering has NOTHING to do with stock engines. If you think it is simple, do it.
.
THE POINT IS THIS: The intake, the cams, the exhaust, all optimized for 316 bhp for the S4. Change the exhaust, you still have intake and cams limiting power. Change the intake, you've still got the cams and exhaust limiting power.
Mark Kibort, YOUR starting point is a 6.5L stroker with good cams and exhaust, OF COURSE the intake is holding you back, that's the only thing that you didn't change. And all of your yammering has NOTHING to do with stock engines. If you think it is simple, do it.
.
thats 45-50hp just for an exhaust change (and some minor tweeks in the engine bay (RRFR and maf screen removal).
again, THE POINT IS, the intake will help ANY 928 stock, GT or modified , but sure, will have more benefit the more air you are moving (i.e. larger motor, other mods, etc) Its not optimized... it was MADE to do what you said. not give the 928 too much power as to endanger their 911 market. but, again, the 928 has a 5 liter power plant. nice flowing heads a little restrictive cams compared to modern equipment today (mustang 302, vantage V8). but if you put an intake on our cars its going to WAKE up. we are talking 30 hp in my estimation on a stock s4 and near 50 as we have seen with the GT stuff and exhaust and probably the same on the bigger motors for sure.
thats it.. nothing more.
Greg is just pissed and acting out that he is going to do all this work for 4 people in his "circle of trust".
this is not rocket science here. i dont have the ability to make it, but there are those that do.. Im sure we will find an intake that we all can enjoy and that wont cost $8000.
#222
Rennlist Member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
The Dunning condition is one that almost everyone posting here has!
Ive only claimed several things that are facts:
Ive modified the 84 from 177hp to 290rwhp with everything from intake, cams to bottom ends. (and done several others' cars as well). And taking the stock S4 with GTcams from 290rwhp (no cats) to 335rwhp with RRFR and headers, as well as bolted on a big bottom end to it to get 375rwhp.
Ive run the times ive run and raced for 15+ years never missing a season, so ive seen a lot and learned even more.
and we all know your resume' Glen.
the argument here (and there should be no argument here), as we all see the facts. Then, some of us guess at to what level each modification adds to the net HP and how its skewed by what air flow you actually start with. the math rarely works out in real life.. it kind of reminds me of ALL the things that save 1 second a lap. most will stand there and tout, that "this mod will absolutely save 1 second a lap"...
I remember adding these things up and applying to my car and it came out that the near stock holbert car, with all the mods, should have 6 seconds faster with the 6 mods I DIDNT have. net net, it would be 1 second faster than anderson ever ran, with only 335rwhp. The reality is that in racing, most of this stuff's value is highly embellished.
My only comment to this discussion is that its my belief that the S4 intake is HIGHLY restrictive and some type of replacement will help the engine by at least 25-30hp, just as a bolt on. i think there are many paths to get there , and if mated with headers and cams, that number goes up to almost double!
we have already seen Greg Browns intake (that was by his own admission , too large of runners, etc etc) gain 40hp. thats rear wheel HP, and in the spirit of the discussion, that 40hp is more like 45flywheel hp.. thats significant. its his first pass.... there are many intakes out there that could be converted and copied. Im not the guy to design and build it.... im just tossing ideas out there, based on what ive seen and read.
go look at the specs for the mustang 302 that gets 450rwhp with just a use of a set of headers and filter box (not intake). go look at the valve sizes, compression and cams. its not too far off the 928. and again, the AMvantage with 4.3 liters making near 100hp /liter with cats and only having 1mm lift greater cams and just over 1 point higher CR. Folks, im not the expert here, but it sure looks like its due to the intake!!
Last edited by mark kibort; 03-17-2016 at 03:49 PM.
#223
Rennlist Member
Here's the link:
http://www.ozmoengineering.com/produ...take-manifolds
Work with these guys. Once you've got it engineered, I'm sure you can sell a few.
http://www.ozmoengineering.com/produ...take-manifolds
Work with these guys. Once you've got it engineered, I'm sure you can sell a few.
Put your money where your mouth is.
Commission an intake to the specs YOU want. Put your money on the line for a change. Glen has given you a great lead on a engineering/prototype/designer/fabricator. Greg Brown cannot and will never be bullied/cajoled/sweet-talked into ever providing products to fuel your ego, so get over it and go elsewhere.
Fund your own 100 HP intake and laugh all the way to a 1st place at the finish line or whatever your goal is.
Just Do It
#224
Rennlist Member
I have one set of unclaimed flanges from the first batch available for immediate delivery, also have a spare set of the matching fuel rails. If anyone is interested, PM me for details.