GregBBRD

Greg listens to the very wise Jim Bailey, more than he talks.....

karl ruiter

Wow, I hope you are just having bad luck and that this is not an indication of what used 16 valve motors look like these days...

James Bailey

And some people wonder why I can be so negative about adding boost or NOS to 20 plus year old engines......Here in California there is no risk of freezing so coolant is often neglected never changed and the anti-corrosion additives break down. It still looks green so it must be good How many change the coolant as soon as they get a car ??? These were considered core engines for one reason or another but rest assured that many are in the same condition or worse......Perhaps Porsche for good reason opted not to use liquid cooling for so many years

mark kibort

With Scots 5 liter, we took that mystery 4.7 euro motor, that looked Just like yours and Kyle's, but much worse, and welded up the cylinder tops, bored it to 5 liter and decked it. its still in scots racer today. the welding cost was mixed into the boring, and alusilling for about $1000.

In retrospec, should have just dumped it.

mk

GregBBRD

You're a funny guy, Mark.

As I recall, Scott was about to give up and go do something else for a hobby, before you finally got lucky and got an engine to work....how many engines did you try before that worked?

I really don't have that much time. I'll go the other path and find a block that is good....I know that works, everytime.

GregBBRD

Good 2 valve engines are extremely hard to find and it is going to get worse.
Hell, good 4 valve engines are hard to find.

The 4.5 engines have such little value, right now, that it is too expensive to keep them and they end up getting dumped.

Good 4.7 engines seem hard to find.

danglerb

I get the feeling that the corrosion continues in a parked car or pulled motor maybe even worse than in a driven car, especially the head gaskets. When a motor runs it must tend to boil out and dry the gaskets around the cylinder, when it doesn't run its seep seep seep.

So far the only damage on the blocks I have had were around the water pump gasket area. The seeping seems to promote corrosion, maybe contact with the air or something?

Roy928tt

Is there any impediment to boring a 4.5 out to 4.7?
Turns a boat anchor into a usefull thing, reuse the 4.7 pistons, new rings and off you go! Hell you wouldn't even have to replace the bearings likely.

Cheers Roy

danglerb

Cylinder walls are not too thick, and a good 4.7L block with good internals is "maybe" $500 with some looking. Boring and new pistons would cost a lot more.

The odds of a used 4.5 block being good or bad are no better than with a used 4.7.

mark kibort

Oh yeah, that was a trying few months with scot. actually, what happened, not to hijack the thread with the details, was that the original 4.7 euro engine was pulled apart and had the cylinder wall issues. we found that welding it, was easy enough by a guy that has a lot of experience doing so, and it turned out good. upon start up, it was miswired and while i wasnt there, they were using ether and turing the engine over like it had a carburetor and it was flooded. ( ) it eventurally siezed. we pulled it apart and 2 cylinders were toast. so, we have a nice decked block with welds and 2 junk cylnder holes and 6 good 1 oversize euro pistons. hmmm, the LOGICAL thing to do in retrospec, was junk it. But, with the budget and (you know me) we elected to just bore the 4.7 out to a 5 liter (3mm bore) , and buy a cheap set of pistons from mark from an 85 5 liter. walls were thick enough. weld job was very nice, and we got the block right there, so we did it. we forgot about removing head studs. (pain) we forgot about having to buy a few replacements, on an on and on. Heck, you are right. we got very lucky. wouldnt recommend that direction again. EASILY worth getting a 5 liter block. So, I totally agree. just find a new block that is in decent shape, rering, rebearing and go!

mark kibort

its only 2mm bore job, so not bad, but you still have to remove the studs (big pain) and might have to replace a few of them. (expensive). boring will be about $500 to $1000, so why not just get a 5 liter short block? (or at least the 4.7 )

GregBBRD

If you find a perfect set of used 4.7 pistons, it shouldn't be too far a search to find the block that they came out of. Can't have one without the other...

GregBBRD

Armed with 3 large boxes of filled with new pieces, my son started installing pieces on the "Early 928 Mechanical Checkover/Restoration". This is going to happen pretty quickly (a couple of weekends to complete the entire project) and I've got my own stuff going on, but I'll try to get pictures as he goes. We started a list of things to check over, earlier in this thread. I'll try to add notes and bring things up to date, on that list.

We decided that he should start in the rear and work his way forward. We will be going back and addressing the suspension/brakes, probably next weekend...we are still missing some pieces for that.

We did spend all of last Sunday pressure washing this vehicle. That pair of shoes is still drying. That was a huge job, but it is nice to start with something clean, to work on.

Here you go:


So, you could rebuild an engine, replace the entire fuel injection system, and still have an engine that ran like crap, if you didn't see that collapsed hose that runs from the tank to the fuel pump! Time to drain the tank. The fuel filter is original. Check out the factory red paint on the right fittings. 27 years old and 70,000 miles..nothing but black crap poured out of the inlet side, when he removed it. Tought o make a car run like that.



Replace the pressure hoses. This hose is part of the hose that goes from the fuel filter to the fuel line in the wheelwell. This Kevlar covered, crimped Teflon hose is the best that money can buy. Light and absolutely bulletproof. The hose is then covered with a heat/abrasion resistant covering. Some people are cutting the factory crimps off of the fuel hoses and then replacing the hose with regular fuel hose and clamps. Here's the truth about doing that....if it worked, the factory would have done it and saved the cost of having a custom hose built. If it came with a crimped hose...replace it with that, or something better!



Here's the "Porsche part" of that hose. J2 Precision Hose welds AN fittings onto the stock ends and has them plated. Both ends are treated the same. The crimped Kevlar hose has matching ends, for this. Bullet proof!



Think that twisted "feed hose" in the first picture would be fine, by simply untwisting it and letting it sit for awhile? Think again. Here's that same hose, two hours after removal. Not sure how this car ever ran!



Here's the finished filter/pump area...after rethreading one of the gas tank strap mounting holes that was missing a bolt, replacing the rusty hardware, etc. Note the new filter, the new feed hose, and the new high pressure line from the filter.



Time for a new filler neck seal, to keep the water out of this area. Cleaned the cap, checked the o-ring that seals the cap, which looked perfect. Nothing else needed, for this area.



Next step was to remove the sender and inspect it, especially since the car had been sitting for several years and the fuel condition was unknown. Fortunately, the tank was very clean and the sender moved very freely. A new seal, with some contact cleaner on the connection, was all that he needed, here.



Next step: Transmission and shifting. This car has 70,000 miles on it and the clutch has had no abuse. Hopefully the gearbox will be the same? We aren't going to look inside the gearbox, but change the gear oil and hope for the best. Check out the fill and drain plugs. How do people do that? How often does the gearoil get changed, when the fuel filter is original? Strange things happen to these cars. We got the old plugs out with an air impact...luckily. The two drain plugs and the fill plug all got replaced. There was minimal debris on the magnets. Gearbox got refilled with 75/90 Mobil One synthetic gear oil...it has a limited slip.



Shifting linkage....replace the bushings at the transmsssion, regardless of how they look. They are 27 years old and are going to fall apart, usually when you are 200 miles from home. Here it is, with the boot pulled back...this is actually the coupler with new bushings installed.



Here's a picture with it removed:



Here's a picture of the soft, worn, old bushings. They haven't broken apart, but they will!



Check that rear transmission driveshaft coupler. Torque to 62 ft lbs. They are famous for being loose. This one was tight. That's a good thing. 5th gear can get ruined if this comes loose.



Refit/replace the sealing plug for the access hole...you don't want water/dirt in that area.



Here's the front shift coupler...falling apart. It was like this, before I removed it off of the ball. Note the missing area at the rear of the coupler. This will leave you stranded!



Here's the coupler removed and sitting on a bench. The plastic has deteriorated and is falling apart.



New coupler installed and adjusted. This is a very easy job, with the engine removed and the torque tube lowered. Bit tougher with the engine installed, but still possible.



Here's one of those pictures that happen all the time...when you are holding the camera and it goes off by accident. Might be the best picture of me, ever!

S4ordie

Great progress Kyle and Greg. My thinking on the haircut goes like this - Berkeley = bastion of liberal left and long flowing style. Orange County, CA = bastion of the conservative right and military style cuts.

Nice shot of you Greg. Only one better is the one at the post office

Shark_Week

very nice shots greg. thanks for sharing