Do I have any recourse, out $1150 and no iForged wheels! [long]
02-28-2006, 06:22 PM
#48
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Moore, SC
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ferris B
And finally, when all the dust settles, cancel your Citi card. Good luck with everything.
And as for Iforged, let's start spreading this link around the net, in every forum we know. Let everyone know Iforged is not wotrth doing business with.
02-28-2006, 06:40 PM
#50
Originally Posted by nee.dragger
My CitiCard has an $18,000. limit so here's what I propose. As individuals, there is not much we can do. But as a community (Rennlist members) we can have a lot of power. I'm getting ready to pay off my CitiCard account and would be willing to write the President of CitiCard a letter stating I am closing my account because of the bad business handling of a fellow member in our forum community who's in very good standing. And if a lot of us do the same, it would awaken the powers that be to this situation. How about it members? I could do without one less credit card, especially one that has such little regard for one of their customers.
And as for Iforged, let's start spreading this link around the net, in every forum we know. Let everyone know Iforged is not wotrth doing business with.
And as for Iforged, let's start spreading this link around the net, in every forum we know. Let everyone know Iforged is not wotrth doing business with.
Jon
02-28-2006, 06:48 PM
#51
Drifting
Left the following message at the iforged.com web site
http://www.iforged.com/v3/contact.php
"I see your return policy, however I'm concerned after reading of a dissatisfied customer for a Porsche 928. Is there any reason not to believe this customer's complaints? I hope this misunderstanding has already been resolved and a refund has been rendered. Regards, "
http://www.iforged.com/v3/contact.php
"I see your return policy, however I'm concerned after reading of a dissatisfied customer for a Porsche 928. Is there any reason not to believe this customer's complaints? I hope this misunderstanding has already been resolved and a refund has been rendered. Regards, "
02-28-2006, 06:55 PM
#52
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Ferris B
If Chuck gives the okay, we should overwhelm iForged with 
emails from Rennlisters...
emails from Rennlisters...
02-28-2006, 06:55 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chuck,
I've been a lawyer for going on a quarter-century now. Do not call me. Or any other smart lawyer.
If you called me, or worse yet stopped by my office, we would first review the Big Two Questions:
1) Can I win this lawsuit? 2) Can I afford to win it?
You have 2 potential lawsuits, against iForged and against MasterCard. The answers are yes/no and no/no.
iForged knew that you were buying wheels for a 928, and sold you wheels which were wrong. They almost certainly (I suspect the phrase "never say never" was first uttered by a lawyer on the way home from losing a case at the courthouse) violated the "implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose" which is imposed (lacking really picky disclaimers) on all transactions in goods (identifiable at the time of purchase) by the Uniform Commercial Code, which now applies in every state. iForged is in breach of contract, and owes you so much as you have paid, consequential damages for out of pocket expenses (but not, please, for your emotional distress), and probably an attorney's fee (depends on the law of the applicable jurisdiction) for chasing them.
You can win the suit against iForged, you just can't afford to do so. Even if the law of your local jurisdiction (NC?) will permit you to "hale the defendant into court" (it's called personal jurisdiction, and there are fascinating constitutional questions), a judgment against iForged in NC can only be enforced against their assets in NC. If you try to register the foreign (NC) judgment in their home state (CA?), they can raise the personal jurisdiction question all over again.
Better yet, it's been my experience that most judges (whose exercise of discretion is reviewable only for insanity) think that a reasonable attorney's fee is about 10% of the amount in controversy. Your best-case scenario is that you will have a judgment of around $1200 against a business so financially precarious that they can afford to risk their professional reputation in order to screw you out of $1100. Even if legally enforceable, your judgment, together with a dollar, will get you a cup of overheated coffee at McDonalds. If I am in my right mind, I will charge you, up front, enough to prepay a supercharger kit, and make you help me install it.
You probably can't win the suit against MasterCard. Buried in the fine print of the credit application you never read, but which contains your signature and is therefore presumably enforceable against you, there is probabaly a provision for "binding arbitration." This is almost certainly ("never say never" yeah, yeah) what the law should call a contract of adhesion, and therefore unenforceable, but the present reality is that federal and state governments and their respective courts have been retooled to protect the profits of the business corporations who buy the souls of the legislators who install the judges.
Just to read your contract, which you probably don't have a copy of, if I am in my right mind, I should make you deposit enough money to pay for my Ott X-pipe, and reserve the right to make you pay for a chip and a day of dyno pulls.
There is an ancient maxim of the law that we not only inherited from England but explicitly incorporated into most of our state constitutions, which is that " de minimus non curat lex." Roughly translated, your problem is not important (valuable) enough to involve the courts. Or lawyers.
Your real-life remedies are to explain to the world that iForged is not only imcompetent, in that they do not know what they sell, but that they lack the financial resources to correct their mistakes. And to explain to the obscenely profitable owners of your particular charge-card account why you will never again do business with them. In every state, and in the United States until the Constitution is amended to protect corporate profits, you have the absolute privilege to speak the truth.
The advice is free. If you had driven your 928 to the office, the advice would have been free, and I would likely have led you to chase the local 3-digit state highways. I do not post often here, but I often feel obliged elsewhere to disclaim: "More than you ever wanted to know about ...."
I've been a lawyer for going on a quarter-century now. Do not call me. Or any other smart lawyer.
If you called me, or worse yet stopped by my office, we would first review the Big Two Questions:
1) Can I win this lawsuit? 2) Can I afford to win it?
You have 2 potential lawsuits, against iForged and against MasterCard. The answers are yes/no and no/no.
iForged knew that you were buying wheels for a 928, and sold you wheels which were wrong. They almost certainly (I suspect the phrase "never say never" was first uttered by a lawyer on the way home from losing a case at the courthouse) violated the "implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose" which is imposed (lacking really picky disclaimers) on all transactions in goods (identifiable at the time of purchase) by the Uniform Commercial Code, which now applies in every state. iForged is in breach of contract, and owes you so much as you have paid, consequential damages for out of pocket expenses (but not, please, for your emotional distress), and probably an attorney's fee (depends on the law of the applicable jurisdiction) for chasing them.
You can win the suit against iForged, you just can't afford to do so. Even if the law of your local jurisdiction (NC?) will permit you to "hale the defendant into court" (it's called personal jurisdiction, and there are fascinating constitutional questions), a judgment against iForged in NC can only be enforced against their assets in NC. If you try to register the foreign (NC) judgment in their home state (CA?), they can raise the personal jurisdiction question all over again.
Better yet, it's been my experience that most judges (whose exercise of discretion is reviewable only for insanity) think that a reasonable attorney's fee is about 10% of the amount in controversy. Your best-case scenario is that you will have a judgment of around $1200 against a business so financially precarious that they can afford to risk their professional reputation in order to screw you out of $1100. Even if legally enforceable, your judgment, together with a dollar, will get you a cup of overheated coffee at McDonalds. If I am in my right mind, I will charge you, up front, enough to prepay a supercharger kit, and make you help me install it.
You probably can't win the suit against MasterCard. Buried in the fine print of the credit application you never read, but which contains your signature and is therefore presumably enforceable against you, there is probabaly a provision for "binding arbitration." This is almost certainly ("never say never" yeah, yeah) what the law should call a contract of adhesion, and therefore unenforceable, but the present reality is that federal and state governments and their respective courts have been retooled to protect the profits of the business corporations who buy the souls of the legislators who install the judges.
Just to read your contract, which you probably don't have a copy of, if I am in my right mind, I should make you deposit enough money to pay for my Ott X-pipe, and reserve the right to make you pay for a chip and a day of dyno pulls.
There is an ancient maxim of the law that we not only inherited from England but explicitly incorporated into most of our state constitutions, which is that " de minimus non curat lex." Roughly translated, your problem is not important (valuable) enough to involve the courts. Or lawyers.
Your real-life remedies are to explain to the world that iForged is not only imcompetent, in that they do not know what they sell, but that they lack the financial resources to correct their mistakes. And to explain to the obscenely profitable owners of your particular charge-card account why you will never again do business with them. In every state, and in the United States until the Constitution is amended to protect corporate profits, you have the absolute privilege to speak the truth.
The advice is free. If you had driven your 928 to the office, the advice would have been free, and I would likely have led you to chase the local 3-digit state highways. I do not post often here, but I often feel obliged elsewhere to disclaim: "More than you ever wanted to know about ...."
02-28-2006, 06:57 PM
#54
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Moore, SC
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I started a thread in www.r1-forum.com (I ride an R1 motorcycle too) warning the members there to beware of Iforged. That community has almost 56,000 members with hundreds logged on daily from around the US and Europe. The members there value a nice car as much as we do. Here's the link to the thread.
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showt...16#post2217416
I will also ask my son to start something on Honda Tech this evening. Now that's a big forum also. One way or another, people will hear about this unforgivable situation.
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showt...16#post2217416
I will also ask my son to start something on Honda Tech this evening. Now that's a big forum also. One way or another, people will hear about this unforgivable situation.
02-28-2006, 07:15 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Thanks for the insight Steve, very interesting. We can all learn from that.
Especially the " de minimus non curat lex."
On my street growing up the term was "you ripa me, I lumpa you" which may not apply here, what a shame. It's very effective. Just listening to Chuck's story makes me wanna stick my foot so far up iForged's *** he'd think he was sittin' on my lap!
Let us know what happens Chuck, I got my finger on the e-mail trigger.
Hammer
Especially the " de minimus non curat lex."
On my street growing up the term was "you ripa me, I lumpa you" which may not apply here, what a shame. It's very effective. Just listening to Chuck's story makes me wanna stick my foot so far up iForged's *** he'd think he was sittin' on my lap!
Let us know what happens Chuck, I got my finger on the e-mail trigger.
Hammer
02-28-2006, 07:28 PM
#57
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Suburban St. Louis in Illinois.
Posts: 877
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Silverback66
Chuck,
I've been a lawyer for going on a quarter-century now. Do not call me. Or any other smart lawyer.
If you called me, or worse yet stopped by my office, we would first review the Big Two Questions:
1) Can I win this lawsuit? 2) Can I afford to win it?
You have 2 potential lawsuits, against iForged and against MasterCard. The answers are yes/no and no/no.
iForged knew that you were buying wheels for a 928, and sold you wheels which were wrong. They almost certainly (I suspect the phrase "never say never" was first uttered by a lawyer on the way home from losing a case at the courthouse) violated the "implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose" which is imposed (lacking really picky disclaimers) on all transactions in goods (identifiable at the time of purchase) by the Uniform Commercial Code, which now applies in every state. iForged is in breach of contract, and owes you so much as you have paid, consequential damages for out of pocket expenses (but not, please, for your emotional distress), and probably an attorney's fee (depends on the law of the applicable jurisdiction) for chasing them.
You can win the suit against iForged, you just can't afford to do so. Even if the law of your local jurisdiction (NC?) will permit you to "hale the defendant into court" (it's called personal jurisdiction, and there are fascinating constitutional questions), a judgment against iForged in NC can only be enforced against their assets in NC. If you try to register the foreign (NC) judgment in their home state (CA?), they can raise the personal jurisdiction question all over again.
Better yet, it's been my experience that most judges (whose exercise of discretion is reviewable only for insanity) think that a reasonable attorney's fee is about 10% of the amount in controversy. Your best-case scenario is that you will have a judgment of around $1200 against a business so financially precarious that they can afford to risk their professional reputation in order to screw you out of $1100. Even if legally enforceable, your judgment, together with a dollar, will get you a cup of overheated coffee at McDonalds. If I am in my right mind, I will charge you, up front, enough to prepay a supercharger kit, and make you help me install it.
You probably can't win the suit against MasterCard. Buried in the fine print of the credit application you never read, but which contains your signature and is therefore presumably enforceable against you, there is probabaly a provision for "binding arbitration." This is almost certainly ("never say never" yeah, yeah) what the law should call a contract of adhesion, and therefore unenforceable, but the present reality is that federal and state governments and their respective courts have been retooled to protect the profits of the business corporations who buy the souls of the legislators who install the judges.
Just to read your contract, which you probably don't have a copy of, if I am in my right mind, I should make you deposit enough money to pay for my Ott X-pipe, and reserve the right to make you pay for a chip and a day of dyno pulls.
There is an ancient maxim of the law that we not only inherited from England but explicitly incorporated into most of our state constitutions, which is that " de minimus non curat lex." Roughly translated, your problem is not important (valuable) enough to involve the courts. Or lawyers.
Your real-life remedies are to explain to the world that iForged is not only imcompetent, in that they do not know what they sell, but that they lack the financial resources to correct their mistakes. And to explain to the obscenely profitable owners of your particular charge-card account why you will never again do business with them. In every state, and in the United States until the Constitution is amended to protect corporate profits, you have the absolute privilege to speak the truth.
The advice is free. If you had driven your 928 to the office, the advice would have been free, and I would likely have led you to chase the local 3-digit state highways. I do not post often here, but I often feel obliged elsewhere to disclaim: "More than you ever wanted to know about ...."
I've been a lawyer for going on a quarter-century now. Do not call me. Or any other smart lawyer.
If you called me, or worse yet stopped by my office, we would first review the Big Two Questions:
1) Can I win this lawsuit? 2) Can I afford to win it?
You have 2 potential lawsuits, against iForged and against MasterCard. The answers are yes/no and no/no.
iForged knew that you were buying wheels for a 928, and sold you wheels which were wrong. They almost certainly (I suspect the phrase "never say never" was first uttered by a lawyer on the way home from losing a case at the courthouse) violated the "implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose" which is imposed (lacking really picky disclaimers) on all transactions in goods (identifiable at the time of purchase) by the Uniform Commercial Code, which now applies in every state. iForged is in breach of contract, and owes you so much as you have paid, consequential damages for out of pocket expenses (but not, please, for your emotional distress), and probably an attorney's fee (depends on the law of the applicable jurisdiction) for chasing them.
You can win the suit against iForged, you just can't afford to do so. Even if the law of your local jurisdiction (NC?) will permit you to "hale the defendant into court" (it's called personal jurisdiction, and there are fascinating constitutional questions), a judgment against iForged in NC can only be enforced against their assets in NC. If you try to register the foreign (NC) judgment in their home state (CA?), they can raise the personal jurisdiction question all over again.
Better yet, it's been my experience that most judges (whose exercise of discretion is reviewable only for insanity) think that a reasonable attorney's fee is about 10% of the amount in controversy. Your best-case scenario is that you will have a judgment of around $1200 against a business so financially precarious that they can afford to risk their professional reputation in order to screw you out of $1100. Even if legally enforceable, your judgment, together with a dollar, will get you a cup of overheated coffee at McDonalds. If I am in my right mind, I will charge you, up front, enough to prepay a supercharger kit, and make you help me install it.
You probably can't win the suit against MasterCard. Buried in the fine print of the credit application you never read, but which contains your signature and is therefore presumably enforceable against you, there is probabaly a provision for "binding arbitration." This is almost certainly ("never say never" yeah, yeah) what the law should call a contract of adhesion, and therefore unenforceable, but the present reality is that federal and state governments and their respective courts have been retooled to protect the profits of the business corporations who buy the souls of the legislators who install the judges.
Just to read your contract, which you probably don't have a copy of, if I am in my right mind, I should make you deposit enough money to pay for my Ott X-pipe, and reserve the right to make you pay for a chip and a day of dyno pulls.
There is an ancient maxim of the law that we not only inherited from England but explicitly incorporated into most of our state constitutions, which is that " de minimus non curat lex." Roughly translated, your problem is not important (valuable) enough to involve the courts. Or lawyers.
Your real-life remedies are to explain to the world that iForged is not only imcompetent, in that they do not know what they sell, but that they lack the financial resources to correct their mistakes. And to explain to the obscenely profitable owners of your particular charge-card account why you will never again do business with them. In every state, and in the United States until the Constitution is amended to protect corporate profits, you have the absolute privilege to speak the truth.
The advice is free. If you had driven your 928 to the office, the advice would have been free, and I would likely have led you to chase the local 3-digit state highways. I do not post often here, but I often feel obliged elsewhere to disclaim: "More than you ever wanted to know about ...."
02-28-2006, 07:35 PM
#59
Originally Posted by nee.dragger
My CitiCard has an $18,000. limit so here's what I propose. As individuals, there is not much we can do. But as a community (Rennlist members) we can have a lot of power. I'm getting ready to pay off my CitiCard account and would be willing to write the President of CitiCard a letter stating I am closing my account because of the bad business handling of a fellow member in our forum community who's in very good standing. And if a lot of us do the same, it would awaken the powers that be to this situation. How about it members? I could do without one less credit card, especially one that has such little regard for one of their customers.
And as for Iforged, let's start spreading this link around the net, in every forum we know. Let everyone know Iforged is not wotrth doing business with.
And as for Iforged, let's start spreading this link around the net, in every forum we know. Let everyone know Iforged is not wotrth doing business with.
I also think this is scary that the dispute resolution is so poor. I have had citi cards for all my adult years. A total of probably 20k in limits right now, and many many 1000s of dollars in interest payments over the years.
02-28-2006, 08:14 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chuck,
There you go, being reasonable again.
The equitable remedy of recission is to put both of the parties back into the position as if the contract never had happened. You will get back your money; they will get back their wheels. (Does the equation not yet balance?)
If you will repost the url for iForged (again?), I will personally promise them that they will never see a penny of any money of anyone who listens to me. Post me the MasterCard url, and I will invite them to go felonize themselves.
If they are selling to you, their market is tiny. We are a big porpotion. And loud.
There you go, being reasonable again.
The equitable remedy of recission is to put both of the parties back into the position as if the contract never had happened. You will get back your money; they will get back their wheels. (Does the equation not yet balance?)
If you will repost the url for iForged (again?), I will personally promise them that they will never see a penny of any money of anyone who listens to me. Post me the MasterCard url, and I will invite them to go felonize themselves.
If they are selling to you, their market is tiny. We are a big porpotion. And loud.