Karl_W944 and the Search for the Perfect 944 :Burnout:
01-24-2014, 04:38 PM
#346
Burning Brakes
things can go well for a given period of time, but overall the engine is indeed a poor design.
the engine can turn a few rpms... and that seems to lure people into a state of semi-euphoria...
so, let's not get all euphoric or sentimental. Porsche sure as hell isn't.
it suffers from oiling issues and it's timing belt/H20 pump system is completely awful....
Porsche didn't show any sympathy to the prospective buyer during the production run.
Proof: having to dismantle half the car to swap in a new clutch....
it shouldn't cost me $1,300 to change a too early-to-fail water pump....
effectively turning a $1,600 t-belt/bs-belt/tensioners/H20 pump interval into a $3,000+ interval.....
that's a ****ty engine.
a $3,000 camshaft repair shouldn't become a repeat offender 500 miles down the road....
we shouldn't be reading about 240 failed rebuilds in 10 lifetimes let alone 5 years.
the HO cars shouldn't blow so many head gaskets....
the electrical systems..... I'm not sure if fully fried electrical systems get a pass or not
but, if I were Porsche, I'd be willing to issue new wiring harnesses that didn't cost a fortune.
for execution of what already was a flawed design to begin with, the 944/T/S2/968 gets a C-.
here's an example of a fantastic, yet straightforward design that could have taken the S2/968 to the next place,
and destroyed the Jap competition with one swing:
the 3.5 and 3.7 litre Chevy Vortec I-5s....
http://www.underhoodservice.com/Arti...ve_engine.aspx
could Porsche have built a HIGH DISPLACEMENT I-5 that was this good for their $45,000+ 968s in the mid-90s ????
the answer is an unequivocal YES. and had an engine of this caliber, capable of equating a FLAGSHIP 968, ever have been offered,
I'd be singing Porsche's praises to the ends of hell.....
all they would have had to do was get Audi's Motorsport division on the phone.
and the bulletproof, monster-5 with bolt-on turbo....
.
the engine can turn a few rpms... and that seems to lure people into a state of semi-euphoria...
so, let's not get all euphoric or sentimental. Porsche sure as hell isn't.
it suffers from oiling issues and it's timing belt/H20 pump system is completely awful....
Porsche didn't show any sympathy to the prospective buyer during the production run.
Proof: having to dismantle half the car to swap in a new clutch....
it shouldn't cost me $1,300 to change a too early-to-fail water pump....
effectively turning a $1,600 t-belt/bs-belt/tensioners/H20 pump interval into a $3,000+ interval.....
that's a ****ty engine.
a $3,000 camshaft repair shouldn't become a repeat offender 500 miles down the road....
we shouldn't be reading about 240 failed rebuilds in 10 lifetimes let alone 5 years.
the HO cars shouldn't blow so many head gaskets....
the electrical systems..... I'm not sure if fully fried electrical systems get a pass or not
but, if I were Porsche, I'd be willing to issue new wiring harnesses that didn't cost a fortune.
for execution of what already was a flawed design to begin with, the 944/T/S2/968 gets a C-.
here's an example of a fantastic, yet straightforward design that could have taken the S2/968 to the next place,
and destroyed the Jap competition with one swing:
the 3.5 and 3.7 litre Chevy Vortec I-5s....
http://www.underhoodservice.com/Arti...ve_engine.aspx
could Porsche have built a HIGH DISPLACEMENT I-5 that was this good for their $45,000+ 968s in the mid-90s ????
the answer is an unequivocal YES. and had an engine of this caliber, capable of equating a FLAGSHIP 968, ever have been offered,
I'd be singing Porsche's praises to the ends of hell.....
all they would have had to do was get Audi's Motorsport division on the phone.
and the bulletproof, monster-5 with bolt-on turbo....
.
Back in 2002, General Motors developed...
01-24-2014, 04:48 PM
#347
Rennlist Member
Ten years newer clean-sheet design is better than the 968 engine, based on an already 10 year old design, I'm shocked. I agree the 968 had an outdated engine. That doesn't mean that they are crap, it just means the 968 had a less competitive engine than it could have. I maintain that the 2.5L N/A was a pretty damn good engine for its time.
"Even today, the 968 engine is widely recognized as a benchmark for engine design."
I recommend watching the whole clip... it really put the engines in context: what they were for their time. While getting great gas mileage! Ha!
01-25-2014, 02:38 PM
#348
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 213 Likes
on
153 Posts
is that 944 in the video sporting the famed euro bumper you all keep rapping about ??
looks cool. especially for the times.
the 968 engine is a decent semi-exotic.
the low end can go 300 k miles between rebuilds,
but that time from 0-300 k presents an extremely expensive proposition.
.
looks cool. especially for the times.
the 968 engine is a decent semi-exotic.
the low end can go 300 k miles between rebuilds,
but that time from 0-300 k presents an extremely expensive proposition.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 01-25-2014 at 03:12 PM.
01-25-2014, 02:41 PM
#349
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Geez, all the things that go on here while I'm gone 
I love this forum!
I liked the video. I just love watching classic cars with classic film. It somehow invokes a sense of nostalgia even though all of that was before my time.
I love this forum!
I liked the video. I just love watching classic cars with classic film. It somehow invokes a sense of nostalgia even though all of that was before my time.
01-25-2014, 03:24 PM
#350
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 213 Likes
on
153 Posts
one of your future posts might go something like this....
and what a day Twiggy had yesterday, ehh?
don't even think of missing photo #12 which contains the GO-PRO clip of the inside of the bowl
and Mark Healey's hold down on that massive clean-up wave.
http://www.surfline.com/surf-news/gr...tional_105998/
,
and what a day Twiggy had yesterday, ehh?
don't even think of missing photo #12 which contains the GO-PRO clip of the inside of the bowl
and Mark Healey's hold down on that massive clean-up wave.
http://www.surfline.com/surf-news/gr...tional_105998/
,
Last edited by odurandina; 01-25-2014 at 03:42 PM.
01-25-2014, 04:41 PM
#351
Rennlist Member
Having driven a V8 944... it is pretty damn fun. If something ever happens to my 2.5 I'm going to seriously consider a truck LS. But trust me... it's not like swapped cars are trouble free. I know Cale's car has had tons of bugs worked out. A lot of which were engine/swap related. It's not a free pass out of maintenance hell 
01-25-2014, 05:29 PM
#352
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Not by a long shot. But in dreams everythng is perfect.
01-25-2014, 10:37 PM
#354
Rennlist Member
01-25-2014, 10:42 PM
#356
Rennlist Member
01-26-2014, 12:12 AM
#357
Three Wheelin'
01-26-2014, 01:29 AM
#359
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 213 Likes
on
153 Posts
Well it turns out that slate gray coupe has some issues. Big hat tip to a member on one of the other forums who pointed out the following, buyer beware, hope none of our Rennlisters are bidding:
"The bids as of today are below $5000 and the mileage is stated as 134,662. He ran a CarFax for grins and it is flagged for an odometer rollback. reported mileage by a Massachusetts inspection station 9/25/2003-153,574; 3/1/2004 159,723; 10/14/2004 166,776; 10/30/2006 190,735. Then on 10/5/2007 it was recorded another Mass. inspection station as 118,623. If you're bidding on this one, beware, do some homework!"
WP0AA296XRS820155
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-968-...US_Cars_Trucks
"The bids as of today are below $5000 and the mileage is stated as 134,662. He ran a CarFax for grins and it is flagged for an odometer rollback. reported mileage by a Massachusetts inspection station 9/25/2003-153,574; 3/1/2004 159,723; 10/14/2004 166,776; 10/30/2006 190,735. Then on 10/5/2007 it was recorded another Mass. inspection station as 118,623. If you're bidding on this one, beware, do some homework!"
WP0AA296XRS820155
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-968-...US_Cars_Trucks
01-26-2014, 02:02 AM
#360
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 213 Likes
on
153 Posts
Originally Posted by analogeezer
The latest edition of Hemmings Sports and GT Car has an article on a guy who owns a Plymouth Sapparo.
These cars came with the Astron 2.6 liter inline four, used in a lot of 1970's and 1980's Mitsu and Chrysler captive import products, I used to own a Dodge branded Mitsu truck with this engine.
Turbocharged it powered the Starion/Conquest.
Anyway to get a four that large to not shake like a paint mixer, Mitsubishi put in dual balancer shafts, I know my truck still seemed kinda crude and low revving but I guess the system kept the vibrations at bay.
FWIW Mitsu had actually bought or licensed the patents from someone else.
Oh yeah if you bought a Mazda B2600 pickup in the 1980's, it had the Mitsu engine in it, in fact the only way to get a 4 x 4 Mazda pickup back then was with the Mitsu engine.
Anyway in this article about the Sapparo they pointed out the "silent shaft engine design" and that it was licensed to Porsche for use on the 944 (and of course the later 968) since those were very large four cylinders....
So Porsche paid a royalty to Mitsu.......$8 for each car....at a total of just over 200,000 944's and 968's they hardly got rich off the deal but I found it interesting nonetheless, I never knew about this at all.
Analogeezer
from other forum.