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I just got a Kline Exhaust, does that mean that the base map would not be advised, since Kline is OAP and back box?
You keep giving the gains for 93 octane, but some states (including CA do not offer 93), what are the gains on 91 Octane?
We haven't tested the myriad different OAP options on the market to confirm compatibility with the Stage 1 OTS maps; that's something that is going to require some early adopters to send logs in to us after they've installed their Accessports so we can confirm everything looks good. As far as rear mufflers, they'll be fine with the OTS maps.
For gains, 91 Octane Stage 1 are listed right on the product page here:
When you say ‘dumping filters,’ I am under the impression you are referring to cats/resonators from headers and OAPs?
In other words, with regard to exhaust modifications, stage 1 tune is not intended for anything more than swapping out the OEM rear box? Pretty typical that most stage 2 maps tend to be developed for ‘increased flow.’
I sense COBB is focused on not offering stage 2 mapping because they want keep everything emissions compliant. More than that, given the multitudes of aftermarket header/OAP/rear box replacement options, I think this is wise because it would be nearly impossible to produce a generic map that suits all the different ‘flows’ that could be produced. In other words, after stage 1, it seems every aftermarket tune should be individualized (e.g. pro-tunes). Better for both the tuners and consumers in the long run.
Avera
For all intents and purposes Stage I is a CARB approved upgraded calibration for your car. It assumes all OEM components. It is the only way to have CARB approval on something. In order to have Stage II you would have to have a CARB approved exhaust mod and then a Stage II file for that mod. That's a lot of time and money.
The car responded amazingly to a CARB approved upgrade. Pro Tuners can take things further by massaging the calibration for off-road track use with CARB approved components and giving you different files for different octanes.
Originally Posted by Alpha Ice
Jared,
I'm in a similar boat to Avera, running some manifolds, with hfc and an aftermarket exhaust. I'm a bit more compliant now that I have cats vs before, but what steps and timeline would be needed to do a protune? The last time I did something similar I had the My Genius tool and had to gather data and send that off. Do you guys do something similar and send it back within a couple days? Also, does that affect the pricing at all of the 1550/1395 pricing?
Thanks much!
The Pro Tune timeline is based on how quickly you can send logs back to me. When you had the My Genius tool you were reading out the stock file and then having someone send you back a modified file that was most likley an OTS style map if you didn't make changes to it. Things that the Accessport does that the My Genius does not are 1.) you have hardware that provides gauges, logging, code clearing, dyno mode, etc. 2.) I am able to custom tune your car for your mods remotely. You run the car on the dyno through the RPM band and send me the logs. If you're going to the race track we ask that you wait until the hottest time of the day at the end of your session for a 3rd gear pull from 3K RPM to redline.
I am not in the market for a tune, but do enjoy the topic and learning what is available on the market
Awesome...happy to have you here!
Originally Posted by Bill Mitchell
Jared, is there a list anywhere of dealers that sell the Cobb Axccess port tune or the Protuner option? I know my dealer does not but just wondering how I might locate the nearest selling dealer. Your work on this is amazing when I realize all the work that goes into the finished product. I had the tune on my 981 GTS but it was a much more modest increase, the numbers for the 4.0 engine are fantastic.
Well doh, I looked on your website and see you list them, never mind, I'll see who is closest.
Bill, you need not worry about proximity. I have tuned GT4s all over the world thanks to the Cobb!
Originally Posted by TRZ06
Two questions...
I just got a Kline Exhaust, does that mean that the base map would not be advised, since Kline is OAP and back box?
You keep giving the gains for 93 octane, but some states (including CA do not offer 93), what are the gains on 91 Octane?
OTS Stage I is going to make power on your car whether you have modified it or not. If you have completely upgraded your exhaust, then your car will automatically take full advantage of said exhaust upgrade. If you want to smooth the curve, have multiple maps with different rev limits, then you go the Pro Tune route.
I think it's safe to assume that your gains could be 5% less if you're stuck running 91 octane. The cars run so on the edge of knock and are so lean from the factory, there's no doubt in my mind that if someone with a California car got on a plane and flew to the east coast to drive the same car on 94 octane in the winter time, you would return back to So Cal and think your car was broken.
Thanks for your answer regarding the PDK tune. Please do let me know if anything changes for the GT4. If I'll be getting a quicker shift time with the PDK tune? I'm not so concerned with the shift schedule, but definitely interested in a quicker shift time if it's available for the GT4! Thanks!
There unfortunately aren't as many features present for the GT4/Spyder since most of the additives (dual paddle neutral, increased shift speed, etc.) are pulled from the GT cars and "copied" into the GTS. The OEM Porsche software treats shift speed as a toggle so the actual shift rates are hard coded into the TCM. The main upgrade for the GT cars with the PDK maps is the shift schedule itself. Sorry about that!
There unfortunately aren't as many features present for the GT4/Spyder since most of the additives (dual paddle neutral, increased shift speed, etc.) are pulled from the GT cars and "copied" into the GTS. The OEM Porsche software treats shift speed as a toggle so the actual shift rates are hard coded into the TCM. The main upgrade for the GT cars with the PDK maps is the shift schedule itself. Sorry about that!
- Andrew
The only “shift schedule” I see in my Spyder is only under the lightest accelerator movement.
Under anything other than granny driving the shift points are determined by pedal position, speed, and are adaptive to driver’s habits.
Even in non-PDK Sport it’ll spin to RL at less than full throttle.
The only “shift schedule” I see in my Spyder is only under the lightest accelerator movement.
Under anything other than granny driving the shift points are determined by pedal position, speed, and are adaptive to driver’s habits.
Even in non-PDK Sport it’ll spin to RL at less than full throttle.
The shift scheduling is dependent on pedal position, vehicle speed, and a variety of other factors such as incline, braking, and some measure of adaptation. It's constantly interpolating between various tables to determine dynamic shift points. Our maps have adjusted the minimum shift points across all the various lookup control tables.
The shift scheduling is dependent on pedal position, vehicle speed, and a variety of other factors such as incline, braking, and some measure of adaptation. It's constantly interpolating between various tables to determine dynamic shift points. Our maps have adjusted the minimum shift points across all the various lookup control tables.
As a six speed hack, the value of the Cobb tuning product jumps out at me. I had the Cobb tune on my 981 BS PDK and it was great fun.
I expect more fun from the 982 tune, given the sunk cost of the Cobb hardware.
Very well done on the value scale by Cobb.
@DerekHK I agree that might be a but confusing. We're updating the graphic to display "Decreased Shift Time Enabled" which should hopefully clarify.
- Andrew
I was wondering if Cobb can share the data that I ask for in post 111
I have another question: have you tested on another gt4? I was wondering how repeatable are the gains, or was that a one of result. Thanks in advance.
Question to Cobb: Why do your gt4 dyno graphs on your site end at 7500 rpm? What happens in those last 500 rpm? Did you stopped the pulls at 7500?
Originally Posted by 85Gold
Read post #85
Peter
Originally Posted by planolemans
I was wondering if Cobb can share the data that I ask for in post 111
I have another question: have you tested on another gt4? I was wondering how repeatable are the gains, or was that a one of result. Thanks in advance.
I apologize, I was under the impression Peter's response pretty much covered it because his response was referencing Andrew's response earlier in the thread, here it is in posteriquote format as well:
For our purposes during testing, we kept the runs short to avoid bouncing off the rev limiter too many times. I probably logged several hundred pulls in this car per month. Since we had already achieved peak power by 7500 RPM, we kept it on the conservative side to keep the car safe. Once we have the car back from emissions testing, I can definitely give it a few full sends for a full graph!
As Andrew alluded to, our Cayman GTS 4.0 remains in SoCal for some additional CARB testing so we can potentially release even more CARB approved goodies for everyone ;-). Unfortunately that means it's not available here in Austin anytime soon for us to immediately throw back on our dyno and make some 8k pulls with. Since we've already sold our Spyder (much to many of our coworkers disappointment) that leaves us waiting on outside resources to expedite your request. On the good news front, since we're also working to get the exhaust flap control updates tested and release as quickly as possible, we've arranged for a local customer's 718 GT4 to come in later in the week for us to use. We'll be putting it on the dyno and using it for both some 8k dyno charts and the exhaust flap testing so if all goes well we should have more info by the end of the week.
As for part two of your question, well that really boils down to semantics I suppose. Technically if you're being picky "we" haven't tested in house on a GT4 at all, so the answer could be 0? However we purchased both our Spyder and our Cayman GTS to test concurrently and provide full access to each factory tuning option and immediately provide us with repeatable data from two sources. They both use the identical motor mechanically, they both did hundreds of pulls on our same dyno, and they both show final dyno charts within a few hp of each other on two different octane fuels...so by that standard I'd say we've already clearly demonstrated repetition on two vehicles (albeit not GT4s). But then... if you go all the way back to the first page of the thread and check out the dyno graph posted in post 5 (where John is also later flambeed for not making a pull all the way to 8k RPM...apparently these cars ain't easy to avoid pinging off a rev limiter?) you'll see a chart posted from a 718 GT4 MT where certain internet sleuths did some measuring and calculating (discussed in post 13) to come out with a WHP gain of ~35whp which is almost precisely what we show as a gain from our Spyder, on a totally different car, on a totally different dyno, in a totally different climate (albeit it was hot AF for both cars, we had just a smidge less humidity thankfully), so by that standard I'd say we've shown results on three different cars, or maybe just one GT4. I'm not really sure which way I'm scoring that one.
Bottom line- we don't do one off calibrations for dyno charts for any of our applications nor do we push our OTS calibrations to the ragged edge of reliability to make a dyno chart look good. We are well known in the industry for being consistently conservative with our OTS maps (just go ask some 991.2 non-capital T turbo guys) because we strive to provide maps that will work for nearly everyone right out of the box. When it comes to replicating results this is where I'll remind everyone this is why we strongly prefer to quote percentage gains, rather than individual dyno chart final numbers, because percentage gains will remain constant regardless of dyno manufacturer/etc and should transfer regardless of what a particular car baselines on a particular heartbreaker dyno. If you go back to John's dyno chart in post 5 you'll see his baseline aligns fairly closely to ours which is why the overall numbers all lined up nicely. Frankly that's not what you'll usually see across two manufacturers of dynos (our Mustang compared to his Dynojet) but for today's discussion it did make things a bit less muddy.
Thanks for your response. I have experience with your accessport on my other car, but it was custom tuned by Cobb because of the changes I made to the turbo and intercooler. Thus I have no experience with the generic tune which I will be using this time because my gt4 is basically stock, except for OAP.
Can you comment on drivability since from the figure, the spread between peak hp and torque is only 2000 rpm where stock figures from porsche is 2600 rpm. The spread seem to me to be real important because of the long second gear in the stock tyranny. You loose a lot of rpm in that 1 to 2 shift.
Originally Posted by COBB Tuning
I apologize, I was under the impression Peter's response pretty much covered it because his response was referencing Andrew's response earlier in the thread, here it is in posteriquote format as well:
As Andrew alluded to, our Cayman GTS 4.0 remains in SoCal for some additional CARB testing so we can potentially release even more CARB approved goodies for everyone ;-). Unfortunately that means it's not available here in Austin anytime soon for us to immediately throw back on our dyno and make some 8k pulls with. Since we've already sold our Spyder (much to many of our coworkers disappointment) that leaves us waiting on outside resources to expedite your request. On the good news front, since we're also working to get the exhaust flap control updates tested and release as quickly as possible, we've arranged for a local customer's 718 GT4 to come in later in the week for us to use. We'll be putting it on the dyno and using it for both some 8k dyno charts and the exhaust flap testing so if all goes well we should have more info by the end of the week.
As for part two of your question, well that really boils down to semantics I suppose. Technically if you're being picky "we" haven't tested in house on a GT4 at all, so the answer could be 0? However we purchased both our Spyder and our Cayman GTS to test concurrently and provide full access to each factory tuning option and immediately provide us with repeatable data from two sources. They both use the identical motor mechanically, they both did hundreds of pulls on our same dyno, and they both show final dyno charts within a few hp of each other on two different octane fuels...so by that standard I'd say we've already clearly demonstrated repetition on two vehicles (albeit not GT4s). But then... if you go all the way back to the first page of the thread and check out the dyno graph posted in post 5 (where John is also later flambeed for not making a pull all the way to 8k RPM...apparently these cars ain't easy to avoid pinging off a rev limiter?) you'll see a chart posted from a 718 GT4 MT where certain internet sleuths did some measuring and calculating (discussed in post 13) to come out with a WHP gain of ~35whp which is almost precisely what we show as a gain from our Spyder, on a totally different car, on a totally different dyno, in a totally different climate (albeit it was hot AF for both cars, we had just a smidge less humidity thankfully), so by that standard I'd say we've shown results on three different cars, or maybe just one GT4. I'm not really sure which way I'm scoring that one.
Bottom line- we don't do one off calibrations for dyno charts for any of our applications nor do we push our OTS calibrations to the ragged edge of reliability to make a dyno chart look good. We are well known in the industry for being consistently conservative with our OTS maps (just go ask some 991.2 non-capital T turbo guys) because we strive to provide maps that will work for nearly everyone right out of the box. When it comes to replicating results this is where I'll remind everyone this is why we strongly prefer to quote percentage gains, rather than individual dyno chart final numbers, because percentage gains will remain constant regardless of dyno manufacturer/etc and should transfer regardless of what a particular car baselines on a particular heartbreaker dyno. If you go back to John's dyno chart in post 5 you'll see his baseline aligns fairly closely to ours which is why the overall numbers all lined up nicely. Frankly that's not what you'll usually see across two manufacturers of dynos (our Mustang compared to his Dynojet) but for today's discussion it did make things a bit less muddy.
Thanks for your response. I have experience with your accessport on my other car, but it was custom tuned by Cobb because of the changes I made to the turbo and intercooler. Thus I have no experience with the generic tune which I will be using this time because my gt4 is basically stock, except for OAP.
Can you comment on drivability since from the figure, the spread between peak hp and torque is only 2000 rpm where stock figures from porsche is 2600 rpm. The spread seem to me to be real important because of the long second gear in the stock tyranny. You loose a lot of rpm in that 1 to 2 shift.
I'm not sure I'm fully understanding your logic or question but regardless the drivability is excellent in my subjective opinion. Then again, the 718 4.0 motor has excellent driveability stock, it's pretty close to text book power delivery from an NA motor to ramp up TQ relatively early and then try and create a plateau of that torque for as long as possible. All while ramping your HP up smoothly across the entire RPM range until redline with peak power occurring just before redline. If you play around with our interactive dyno charts in the map notes here:
You'll see we're making 300ft-lbs of tq as early as 4500RPM compared to the stock tune that never even hits that mark throughout the pull. We maintain above 300ft-lbs all the way to 6800 RPM so that's a huge swath of the range to aid in drivability. Regardless of whatever RPM chunk you're comparing though we've made torque gains throughout the entire rev range which means regardless of where you're shifting you're going to still have more TQ in the next gear compared to stock.
Here's our chart actually outlining the gains:
Peaks gains are referencing the delta % change where the factory tune was making the most HP (7450RPM) and most TQ (5500RPM). Max gains are referencing the single point of the entire rev range where we saw the largest improvement over stock.
I have a GT4 with PDK but don't see much value in the updates to the shift schedule. Can I use the non PDK version of the Accessport (PN: AP3-POR-015)?
10-30-2022, 02:57 PM
