Bill Mitchell

Jared, is there a list anywhere of dealers that sell the Cobb Axccess port tune or the Protuner option? I know my dealer does not but just wondering how I might locate the nearest selling dealer. Your work on this is amazing when I realize all the work that goes into the finished product. I had the tune on my 981 GTS but it was a much more modest increase, the numbers for the 4.0 engine are fantastic.

Well doh, I looked on your website and see you list them, never mind, I'll see who is closest.

COBB Tuning

Transmission tuning is a surprisingly major aspect of the overall vehicle experience and frankly something I think most people generally overlook. I know I certainly did for a very very long time until we first started flashing our 991.1 Turbo with our custom PDK tuning and it absolutely transformed the way the car felt, in any driving experience. Porsche has come a long way from those PDK calibrations and with the newer cars we see less and less of a dramatic improvement as their baseline performance has increased. However, the single largest change in the newest cars we can and do make with our custom PDK tuning is the shift schedule, which is exactly what you're describing. The other thing we've learned over the years is shift schedule preference is just as subjective as suspension firmness, if not more so. What one person considers way too aggressive, or way too firm, another considers too tame or too soft. Long winded rambling complete the bottom line is though we've definitely increased the aggressiveness of the shift schedules in normal and sport (no changes in Sport Plus for GTS or Sport for GT4/Spyder) in these cars, there's no quantifiable way to say for certain if it's aggressive enough for your personal tastes using other people's experiences/opinions. My best suggestion is for you to either drive a car with our PDK tuning on it, more than likely you'll want our PDK aggressive map on the car for that test drive, or alternatively you can purchase an Accessport and try it on your own vehicle. If you're not satisfied with any of the PDK maps we offer then contact our customer service department within 30 days and you can return the AP for a full refund. The only thing you'll be out is the cost of the return shipping to us and a few tanks of gas. Though we do not sell the AP with PDK tuning only, which means you'll be paying for ECU tuning it sounds like you're not planning to use, you can install JUST the PDK tuning and leave your ECU stock if you choose.

Thanks!

~Jared

JDWight

Thanks for this info, worked like you said. Much appreciated!

Avera

Jared

Thank you very much . . . I am curious why you will not just sell the PDK tune for those that do not want the ECU tune?

Your 30-day money back guarantee is unbeatable . . . nothing for anyone to lose (except nominal shipping costs)

At any rate, as to your thoughts . . . I am a manual fan boy at heart who fell in love with DCT/PDK manual mode. I enjoy controlling shift points and lightening quick shifts, but do NOT miss the clutch AT ALL.

DCT/PDK automatic modes have never approached the aggressiveness I enjoy when it comes manual upshifts and downshifts during spirited driving. As you say, what is 'aggressive' varies among drivers.

I witnessed first-hand with my G80C (ZF8) that it IS possible for these transmissions to come from factory with 'aggressive' tunes. BMW did an AMAZING job.

Finally, please forgive me if I misread your statement, but I believe you indicate you did not alter the programming of GT4 PDK/Sport mode? To ME, that is NO BUENO, as GT4 PDK/Sport is woefully inadequate when it comes to shift aggressiveness.

Why modify start-up/economy mode at all? Drivers only use economy mode for economy, e.g., highway driving.

Conversely, when drivers want to get aggressive, give them AGGRESSIVE with PDK/Sport mode. Porsche may have come a long way, but they still came up way short with PDK/Sport mode in the GT4. I was hoping your PDK tune would ramp-up PDK/Sport mode SEVERAL notches in my GT4.

Thank you again sir

Avera

COBB Tuning

That is correct, for the GT4 and the Spyder we do not alter the PDK Sport mode behavior at all. As for why not, unfortunately it appears you may be a rare case if you feel PDK Sport in any recent GT car isn't aggressive enough for street use. Over the many years of our PDK tuning products and the thousands of customers I've interacted with I'd guess we've received less than a handful of requests such as yours to ramp up Sport Plus (in non GT cars) or PDK Sport in GT cars to be more aggressive on their shift schedules. Most people tend to land on the other side that the RPM shift points are so ludicrously high that it's virtually unusable on the street without everyone at every street light wondering why you're revving to 4k+ RPM in first gear from every stop. However, like I said previously, it's really surprising how much transmission tuning can affect one's experience with a particular car and preferred behavior, such as shift schedules, is actually a very personally subjective matter. It's why for the standard cars (such as the Boxster GTS or Cayman GTS) we offer a broader range of PDK maps to choose from that vary from just our additional custom features (COBB OEM+) to a mildly increased shift schedule and features (COBB Sport) to a much more aggressive shift schedule, features, pressures, etc (COBB Aggressive) to try and find that "just right" setting for a majority of customers. I like to use the Goldilocks and the three bears analogy for this one but unfortunately, it doesn't sound like we have the right porridge for your particular use case. In our experience the majority of customers in both standard and GT cars do want a normal mode that's just a bit more aggressive so they don't have to push the button, or twist the dial, to Sport every time they start the car; many of which then feel Sport is too aggressive for their normal driving . Almost no one is a fan of the standard programming trying to dump the car into 7th gear by 40mph in every situation it can and so that's the main focus of our solution. I'll also point out that as much as we'd love to be able to create even more aggressive options for any mode- our PDK maps are also CARB approved and tested. Aggressive transmission shift schedules dramatically effect the engine emissions (see Porsche's latest classaction law suit regarding Sport/Sport Plus and emissions) which means we are definitely walking a tight rope when we start ramping up transmission behavior aggressiveness.

From our experiences, PDK Sport mode in GT cars tends to be spot on for track use roughly 99% of the time in auto mode. It was a bit spotty initially in the 991.1 GT3 but by the time they got to the 991.1 RS they had it pretty much dialed in and has been ever since. Every so often on a particular track in a particular corner most drivers will find a place where they wish auto mode would shift up, or shift down (such as before entering T16 at COTA where a quick shortshift upshift into 4th allows for more stability through the Carousel) but the overall experience is the on-track programming is so good, there's very little to improve, so rather than take the risk of making something worse in a critical situation on-track, we've chosen to leave it alone. Additionally, our research and testing shows that PDK sport in GT cars is the most factory adaptive transmission setting of any PDK equipped vehicle. Though all of the PDK vehicles have programming enabled to adapt to a particular driver's style by monitoring throttle input, steering input, brake input, yaw, etc the GT cars in PDK Sport take this to another level. PDK Sport in a GT car will start at a default semi aggressive when first activated and then rapidly dial up, or dial down, the shift behaviors dependent upon how the car is driven in a significantly more driver noticeable way. It's why initially the car may not make a 7th gear upshift until a much higher speed than later on if the car has been driven very casually with light throttle inputs/etc. However as soon as the car is driven aggressively again, the PDK will revert back to a more aggressive behavior and potentially ramp up from the default semi-aggressive setting. Unfortunately, from your description, it sounds like even when the car has been driven hard in PDK Sport Auto mode for an extended period the transmission behavior still isn't adapting to an aggressive enough behavior for your liking. As much as I wish I could say we have a solution for your use case, it sounds like we may not be of much help.
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Last, and in reverse, we've had requests since we introduced TCM tuning with our GTR product lineup to sell Accessports with only transmission tuning enabled. We've looked at the positives and negatives, along with the development costs to do so, many a time but each time the proposals have fallen short of being a viable product addition for us. Hopefully it's something we can integrate into a future Accessport offering along with a much requested Porsche owner want- multiple vehicle support on a single handset!

Thanks!

~Jared

planolemans

Please post the full pull when you can. The gt4 curve shows no sign of turning over. That means if you have reach peak hp at 7500rpm as what was said in post 85, the only way that can happen is for the torque curve to fall off a clift above 7500 rpm. This is what are shown in the GTS curves, which does not look natural to me. It looks like an artifact of the dyno setup; like the rear wheel lost full contact with the drum. I want to get some data up there so that I am comfortable with the tune to run all the way to 8000 rpm.

RoadrunnerGTS

Yep, I wanted to mention that too. Seems odd as other tunes peak around 7900.

DerekHK

Quick question, apart from the Shift Schedule that changes, does anything else change with the TCM tuning? If I drive in manual mode 100% of the time anyway with my PDK, I won't feel anything has changed?

Avera

Jared

Thank you for your thoughtful and informative response . . . everything stated makes perfect sense in terms of development goals and consumer requests.

Despite my stated interests, and your suggestion that your PDK tune might not be the Goldilocks solution I am after, I retain interest in the product. I once again refer to my G80C experience because, until that experience, I never once enjoyed DCT/PDK automatic mode under any driving conditions. Your PDK tune MIGHT not be what I THINK I am after, but I am always open to pleasant surprises - as with the G80C.

Perhaps what you have done with the PDK 'startup mode' will represent another welcomed surprise in my driving enjoyment? I am looking forward to forum feedback from others who have already purchased the PDK tune and should have them out in the wild very soon.

I also understand the dilemma you have with only releasing the PDK tune with access port. Purely a financial consideration on my part, as I do not wish to pay for something I will not use (stage 1 tune). Nonetheless, your product pricing remains very competitive in the market and your 30-day, money back guarantee is impossible to beat.

Thank you again

Avera

EDIT: I only keep referencing my G80C experience because it was an eye-opener to me with respect to how a great transmission tune can make automatic mode enjoyable . . . even to a driver who never previously enjoyed automatic mode in his sport/sporty cars.

However, I am also now reflecting upon how transmission tunes likely vary between a V6 twin turbo and a NA flat6? For example, dramatic changes can be had based on where you land in the RPM range with the twin turbo, which might not be so dramatic with the flat6?

Perhaps this is one reason why I am not particularly enthralled with PDK/Sport automatic mode in my GT4? Conversely, perhaps this represents a reason I might enjoy the COBB PDK tune in startup mode mapping?

Clark_Kent

@Avera I've heard you laud the ZF8 on multiple occasions throughout this thread. I've owned three F80s all with DCT and I've never heard anyone heap effusive praise on the ZF8. Is it really that fantastic? Perhaps I'm out of the loop on the G80 but just found your comments interesting and surprising. Anyhow, don't want to stray off topic.

Avera

I will PM you, as to not derail thread

I hope I have not done so already . . . I only mentioned G80C as a means to express how - in my experience - a good transmission tune made automatic mode enjoyable to a driver who never previously enjoyed anything other than manual mode.

Avera

Clark_Kent

The addition of an air filter should be inconsequential but I don't want to assume. Any issues with running an aftermarket air filter (e.g., BMC Performance or Verus Engineering) with Stage I map?

COBB Tuning

I'll need Andrew to 100% confirm this one on Monday as well for GT4/Spyder but if you have a GTS the answer is a definitive YES. We also adjust shift firmness, which is the characteristic feel of the actual engagement of the next gear, and shift time, which is the time in ms it takes for the next gear to engage. Both of those changes are in effect in manual mode as well so you will feel some changes...as for if it's enough to justify the additional cost...that will be truly up to you.

Since it's a Saturday morning and I have ample time to ramble...I'm absolutely happy to answer anything I can and thank you for your well thought out questions/dialogue. I definitely try to follow the age old axiom of "Under Promise and Over Deliver" when I don my salesman hat to discuss our product assortment with a potential customer. I truly dislike selling someone something I thought they'd enjoy only to have them come back and say "it doesn't do what you said it would" so I do the best I can to qualify my customers while setting realistic expectations. We truly do consider ourselves a customer service company that just so happens to sell go fast parts for cars (and some trucks now too!) and we try to have not just the best customer service in an industry long known for terrible customer experiences but truly exemplary customer service regardless of industry, and that all starts with the initial sales experience long before money has been exchanged. We don't always get it right, and we've certainly taken some knocks as of late that we all wish could have been handled better/differently but it doesn't change our core philosophy. With that whole ramble out of the way I certainly do hope you decide to give the PDK tune a shot at some point in the future and I'll be excited to hear your feedback, both good and bad, when and if you do!

As for your referencing your G80C experience I think it's totally in line with the conversation. As I alluded to in a previous response it was an absolutely cathartic moment for me when I first started driving our 991.1 TT back in the day after we had begun our PDK map testing in earnest. It was the first vehicle we developed our PDK tuning on and stock, it was brutally fast in a straight line of course but other than that it felt very much like a one trick pony to me. Executive autobahn express for sure at whatever insane speed you want but it lacked any real feeling of "fun" to me. Yet as soon as we tuned the PDK the car felt so much lighter, alive, excited, etc and it absolutely transformed my entire experience of driving that car. It was at that moment I realized how much transmission tuning makes a difference in the overall experience of the vehicle and how much I had been overlooking it previously. You're absolutely on topic when you discuss how the G80C totally transformed your expectations from a transmission and transmission tuning as far as I'm concerned!

On to your Edit- Short answer I think yes. I think it's going to be hard to replicate the same overall experience when you're mixing two entirely opposite powerplants and power delivery curves regardless of how good the transmission itself, or the tuning, can be made. I definitely understand your desire for what would be considered sky high RPM shift points in the GT4 to replicate that kind of "kick in the pants" feeling you can get over a much broader range of RPM in the G80C.

Correct, drop in filter replacements of any brand should be totally compatible with the Stage 1 OTS maps.

Thanks!

~Jared

Avera

COBB customer service lives up to your stated goals.

Considering the customer service side of things, I am honestly quite impressed with ALL the venders who show up on this forum.

Yes, I will likely give your PDK tune a whirl . . . still trying to dial in my exhaust acoustics. I like to tackle one project at a time.

Avera

DerekHK

Thanks for your answer regarding the PDK tune. Please do let me know if anything changes for the GT4. If I'll be getting a quicker shift time with the PDK tune? I'm not so concerned with the shift schedule, but definitely interested in a quicker shift time if it's available for the GT4! Thanks!