718 GTS 4.0
02-27-2020, 07:11 AM
#376
Again taking the thread in a different direction. What are your sales predictions for the GTS 4.0 ? Mine are low. Not a knock on the car at all despite my fondness for my F4T and some of my needling on prior posts, I believe that it will be an extraordinary car. Despite that, it's a niche. With a few options, it approaches the price of a base 911. While I think it may be worth it (mid-engine > rear engine, sports car v. GT, etc.), it will be a challenge to overcome the icon status of the 911. I also think that much of the debate about the F4T v. F6 is confined to a relatively small number of people who populate forums and watch YouTube reviews. To the general buying public, which is already small for the car, it just won't matter. Separating emotion, what do you guys predict?
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michael818 (02-27-2020)
02-27-2020, 08:49 AM
#377
Rennlist Member
The small part of the public that would buy a car like this generally does know more about it. And the 4.0 bit written on the side looks good. We've only seen that written on some very very expensive and highly rated 911s so far. So that helps.
People going for value will continue to buy the 2.0 base. The higher end will go for the 4.0. There's not going to be much point in the 2.5 anymore.
The new GTS will also attract some sales from the "NA flat 6 or death!" crowd holding onto their 987/981 cars who had nowhere to upgrade to until now. That's not tens of thousands of sales, but it is a not insignificant number relative to the small amount of sales that the Boxster and Cayman represent for Porsche generally. And 100% of those will get the 4.0.
For anyone at all who loves naturally aspirated flat sixes, the GTS 4.0 cars are awesome value by Porsche standards so I don't see why they would not do well.
People going for value will continue to buy the 2.0 base. The higher end will go for the 4.0. There's not going to be much point in the 2.5 anymore.
The new GTS will also attract some sales from the "NA flat 6 or death!" crowd holding onto their 987/981 cars who had nowhere to upgrade to until now. That's not tens of thousands of sales, but it is a not insignificant number relative to the small amount of sales that the Boxster and Cayman represent for Porsche generally. And 100% of those will get the 4.0.
For anyone at all who loves naturally aspirated flat sixes, the GTS 4.0 cars are awesome value by Porsche standards so I don't see why they would not do well.
02-27-2020, 09:21 AM
#378
Being an owner of 911.2 gt3 I am very much looking to Cayman GTS 4.0.
And I would never consider buying base 911 as an alternative to Cayman 4.0 even if the 911 was cheaper.
Midengine car, 4.0 NA motor, nice looking exterior and interrior with GTS goodies. And all that at a reasonable price!
And I would never consider buying base 911 as an alternative to Cayman 4.0 even if the 911 was cheaper.
Midengine car, 4.0 NA motor, nice looking exterior and interrior with GTS goodies. And all that at a reasonable price!
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Pokerhobo (02-27-2020)
02-27-2020, 09:54 AM
#379
Rennlist Member
Being an owner of 911.2 gt3 I am very much looking to Cayman GTS 4.0.
And I would never consider buying base 911 as an alternative to Cayman 4.0 even if the 911 was cheaper.
Midengine car, 4.0 NA motor, nice looking exterior and interrior with GTS goodies. And all that at a reasonable price!
And I would never consider buying base 911 as an alternative to Cayman 4.0 even if the 911 was cheaper.
Midengine car, 4.0 NA motor, nice looking exterior and interrior with GTS goodies. And all that at a reasonable price!
Last edited by michael818; 02-27-2020 at 11:02 PM.
02-27-2020, 10:11 AM
#380
718 CGTS is not planned instead of GT3, it is in addition.
And again, 2.5 and 4.0 are two different caymans
02-27-2020, 12:53 PM
#381
Rennlist Member
It won't get many 911 guys to swap but it's a good thing for insecure people who wouldn't buy the car without something that clearly sets it apart from the "unloved" 718s. They'd be visually identical otherwise from most angles.
A Cayman GTS 4.0 base price is $15K below the GT4 here and in Europe. It's pretty significant for getting the same drivetrain. On the local configurator, speccing (sensibly) more or less identically the difference between the 2.5S and GTS 4.0 is 11.5K but only 7K if you were going to get a "sporty" build with SC and the sports exhaust with black tips to begin with. It's a good deal.
A Cayman GTS 4.0 base price is $15K below the GT4 here and in Europe. It's pretty significant for getting the same drivetrain. On the local configurator, speccing (sensibly) more or less identically the difference between the 2.5S and GTS 4.0 is 11.5K but only 7K if you were going to get a "sporty" build with SC and the sports exhaust with black tips to begin with. It's a good deal.
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Chester7 (02-28-2020)
02-27-2020, 01:36 PM
#382
Being an owner of 911.2 gt3 I am very much looking to Cayman GTS 4.0.
And I would never consider buying base 911 as an alternative to Cayman 4.0 even if the 911 was cheaper.
Midengine car, 4.0 NA motor, nice looking exterior and interrior with GTS goodies. And all that at a reasonable price!
And I would never consider buying base 911 as an alternative to Cayman 4.0 even if the 911 was cheaper.
Midengine car, 4.0 NA motor, nice looking exterior and interrior with GTS goodies. And all that at a reasonable price!
I had a 981 GTS before and enjoyed it a lot except that I wished it had a bit more power and came with manual transmission.
I’ve checked the 992 in the dealership and while the interior is very beautiful, I find the new 992 too big and more luxury than sport. Reminds me of a 991 TTS I’ve driven before, very fast but feel wide and heavy.
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JAhmed (02-27-2020),
michael818 (02-27-2020)
02-27-2020, 11:07 PM
#384
Rennlist Member
I am not sure that some opinions on sound make it any less of a great car. It performs well and looks good. The 4.0 will be equally good. The depreciation is unfortunate but, again, doesn’t define the car. The turbo is different from NA, not better, not worse, just different. The bias against the T4 is unfortunate and undeserved.
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02-27-2020, 11:14 PM
#385
Rennlist Member
It won't get many 911 guys to swap but it's a good thing for insecure people who wouldn't buy the car without something that clearly sets it apart from the "unloved" 718s. They'd be visually identical otherwise from most angles.
A Cayman GTS 4.0 base price is $15K below the GT4 here and in Europe. It's pretty significant for getting the same drivetrain. On the local configurator, speccing (sensibly) more or less identically the difference between the 2.5S and GTS 4.0 is 11.5K but only 7K if you were going to get a "sporty" build with SC and the sports exhaust with black tips to begin with. It's a good deal.
A Cayman GTS 4.0 base price is $15K below the GT4 here and in Europe. It's pretty significant for getting the same drivetrain. On the local configurator, speccing (sensibly) more or less identically the difference between the 2.5S and GTS 4.0 is 11.5K but only 7K if you were going to get a "sporty" build with SC and the sports exhaust with black tips to begin with. It's a good deal.
I do think the 4.0 is a bargain compared to the GT4, however, it’s still a big jump over the actual discounted selling prices of the T4.
I’m happy for those that buy the 4.0, I would probably do the same but I wish the same people would stop harping on the 2.5. It
02-28-2020, 09:07 AM
#386
Pro
Again taking the thread in a different direction. What are your sales predictions for the GTS 4.0 ? Mine are low. Not a knock on the car at all despite my fondness for my F4T and some of my needling on prior posts, I believe that it will be an extraordinary car. Despite that, it's a niche. With a few options, it approaches the price of a base 911. While I think it may be worth it (mid-engine > rear engine, sports car v. GT, etc.), it will be a challenge to overcome the icon status of the 911. I also think that much of the debate about the F4T v. F6 is confined to a relatively small number of people who populate forums and watch YouTube reviews. To the general buying public, which is already small for the car, it just won't matter. Separating emotion, what do you guys predict?
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seahack (03-14-2020)
02-28-2020, 12:24 PM
#387
Rennlist Member
As the GTS 4.0 already comes very well equipped my goal is to keep options as close to zero as possible. There are many zero cost options (i.e. four color choices, silver rims, PASM, etc). I'm currently considering a white Cayman with silver rims, PASM, leather steering wheel, smoking pkg, Apple Car Play and some de-badging here & there. That would add $360 (USD) in options; I'd be very happy with that.
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sonicworld (08-19-2020)
02-28-2020, 03:27 PM
#388
As the GTS 4.0 already comes very well equipped my goal is to keep options as close to zero as possible. There are many zero cost options (i.e. four color choices, silver rims, PASM, etc). I'm currently considering a white Cayman with silver rims, PASM, leather steering wheel, smoking pkg, Apple Car Play and some de-badging here & there. That would add $360 (USD) in options; I'd be very happy with that.
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sonicworld (02-29-2020)
02-29-2020, 06:15 PM
#389
Meh. I am about buy a 718 BGTS w/PDK. I spent few days in a base 718 PDK (w/PSE) and loved it. The turbo, the sound, everything in the package. I could probably wait and save some money, but I found a perfect config/color for a decent price (2018 CPO till 9/24 with 600 miles for $73k, MSRP $95k) so I decided to bite.
The car will join a diverse stable of cars. I own 2006 Elise Sport, 2013 CTS-V wagon (manual). I also have a 2015 Land Cruiser for overlanding, 2012 Tacoma TX Baja for truckish things. And 2019 i3 BEV for commuting. Technically the GTS will replace a modified 2005 Subaru Legacy GT wagon (also manual) that I still have and will sell soon. Technically as in 4-banger turbo.
See the pattern? Different tools for different things. I struggled with decision a bit because of all the sound hype and sure the NA flat-6 sounds nice when on boil. But I am afraid the new 4.0 will be anemic in typical driving and I do love the turbo, it's a riot on the street where I will be using mine. Also the new 4.0 does not seem to sound as nice as the 981's 3.8. But then the 3.8 is a non-starter due to the packaging. I don't care for GT4 nor Spyder and particularly I do not care for the long geared manual box in these cars.
For my NA fix with a manual, it's where my Elise comes in.
The car will join a diverse stable of cars. I own 2006 Elise Sport, 2013 CTS-V wagon (manual). I also have a 2015 Land Cruiser for overlanding, 2012 Tacoma TX Baja for truckish things. And 2019 i3 BEV for commuting. Technically the GTS will replace a modified 2005 Subaru Legacy GT wagon (also manual) that I still have and will sell soon. Technically as in 4-banger turbo.
See the pattern? Different tools for different things. I struggled with decision a bit because of all the sound hype and sure the NA flat-6 sounds nice when on boil. But I am afraid the new 4.0 will be anemic in typical driving and I do love the turbo, it's a riot on the street where I will be using mine. Also the new 4.0 does not seem to sound as nice as the 981's 3.8. But then the 3.8 is a non-starter due to the packaging. I don't care for GT4 nor Spyder and particularly I do not care for the long geared manual box in these cars.
For my NA fix with a manual, it's where my Elise comes in.
I really enjoyed the 2.0 PDK car a while ago and I don't remember the throttle response or lag getting much in the way of the driving experience (maybe just a little bit when taking off). Even sound was great, I thought. Recently I also drove 2018 S w/manual and the engine responsiveness seemed like less of an issue, though the long 2nd and 3rd were disappointing (and 6th was too short for highway cruising).
I am really surprised but apparently the larger compressor in the GTS turbo is really making the lag more pronounced. Not sure what I am gonna do. I think I'll be waiting for GTS 4.0 w/PDK. Might pick up a base to tide me over in meantime if the wait is unbearable.
Last edited by unclemat; 01-29-2021 at 06:28 PM.
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kart driver (02-29-2020)
