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Ok so the same tired argument that's been happening for years. I view tires as a non-issue. They are a consumable and I don't consider them "part of the car". You want Cup 2 R tires? Put them on. Not a big deal and other car companies are free to use whatever tires they want for testing and setting lap times. Now... if the tires are not street legal, that's another story. Is this all an ethical dilemma? I don't think so. But y'all are free to disagree.
Using a racing bucket seat with a halo is also a non-issue for me because that's a safety thing, especially for a racing driver setting an all-out lap time. If I were a driver I would absolutely refuse to do my job with an OEM seat in the name of safety.
Radio and AC delete? Maybe that one holds more water. But just take the radio out when you get the car.
It's not about if it's an issue for you or for me but rather how these manufacturer sponsored record attempts are done. You cant modify the car, lowering its weight and center of gravity, using better tires - if and only if, you dont have a way for your customers to buy that same car with the warranty and the car being road legal AS TESTED. Period. This isnt some argument about satisfying your criteria or mine. Porsches have been doing this for far too long. That car they lapped has different brake pads, different tires, different seats, less weight and that doesnt even include any other suspension setup they may have done (but that part would be speculating).
Corvettes do and will come with Cup2R tires. The difference is, you dont need to go buy them separately. Also all the lap times posted are done so with factory seats (and Corvette seats weigh about 60 lbs each due to bunch of luxury features), A/C, radio, nav and dont have wheels that you and I cant purchase at the time of ordering a car.
These small changes do make a difference on a 20 km lap. If they didnt make any changes, Porsche wouldnt have made them. Its not a fair game and everyone knows this. Corvettes dont do what Porsche does, why? Call them honest or naive. Their cars that they send to magazines or they use for official record attempts are exactly how you can purchase them from a showroom. You take a look at a magazine review of a GT3RS, you will see Porsche sent a team of people that prep the car tip to toe with specific calibration of everything for that track.
Its like Yankees vs anyone else. Or Real Madrid vs anyone else. You get my point
It's not about if it's an issue for you or for me but rather how these manufacturer sponsored record attempts are done. You cant modify the car, lowering its weight and center of gravity, using better tires - if and only if, you dont have a way for your customers to buy that same car with the warranty and the car being road legal AS TESTED. Period. This isnt some argument about satisfying your criteria or mine. Porsches have been doing this for far too long. That car they lapped has different brake pads, different tires, different seats, less weight and that doesnt even include any other suspension setup they may have done (but that part would be speculating).
Corvettes do and will come with Cup2R tires. The difference is, you dont need to go buy them separately. Also all the lap times posted are done so with factory seats (and Corvette seats weigh about 60 lbs each due to bunch of luxury features), A/C, radio, nav and dont have wheels that you and I cant purchase at the time of ordering a car.
These small changes do make a difference on a 20 km lap. If they didnt make any changes, Porsche wouldnt have made them. Its not a fair game and everyone knows this.
I disagree. That's all there is to it really. Chevy is free to use Cup 2 R tires if they want and use a racing seat to protect their driver. It's their decision not to.
I disagree. That's all there is to it really. Chevy is free to use Cup 2 R tires if they want and use a racing seat to protect their driver. It's their decision not to.
Disagree all you want. The purpose of these attempts isnt "push the car to its limits by modifying it to the extent where more performance can be extracted" but rather "production car lap records". That means you have to draw the line somewhere and that line is pretty simple : a vehicle as can be purchased by a customer, full stop.
You have picked 1 thing out of many I outlined. What about using track pads? Or A/C and Radio delete? Whats the purpose of removing those? Because if there is an accident the radio might kill the driver? Why are there now "track pads" and owners of 992 GT3s complain brakes pretty much failing under aggressive driving (never an issue in 991)? Why cant you and I order a 992 GT3 today, right now, with Cup2R tires but they come with Good Years?
You cant have your cake and eat it too.
Its like saying, "here, I built a hybrid car and it laps Nurburgring in 6 minutes but the hybrid power train uses some battery technology that cannot be yet sourced so you cant purchase it unless you wait months". I own a GT3RS (same car as yours) but I am never under the illusion that Porsche plays this game fairly. You have seen what they have done with GT2RS MR and Mercedes AMG's response to them. They literally made another attempt to beat GTR with a Manthley Racing modified car and hide under some technicality about the fact that those modifications can be purchased. That's really hilarious.
neither, more for grey, silver or white. They would clash with SB or GB.
Oh, I see
Originally Posted by CAlexio
? Whaaaa... the blue/blue combo cars are beautiful.. colors of different shades look good together. Especially because wheels are satin color while car paint is shiny.
I think this has to been seen in the flesh. Could look great or terrible.
For me it's either a blue beast or a black bat from Wuhan
to each his own. I think it’s fantastic that they finally went all out on the GT4RS, however I prefer my 991.2 GT3 to the GT4RS, as the GT3 has more power and a more elegant look.
then again I’m not particularly interested in the GT3RS either.
to each his own. I think it’s fantastic that they finally went all out on the GT4, however I prefer my 991.2 GT3 to the GT4RS
If it were 5-lug, i could be convinced to trade for my 992 GT3. Well maybe not, but this is a great car. Still has tractor suspension, but works well enough....
I am all smitten by a white standard car. Not a fan of the black hood. But like the other WP bits like racetex interior and carbon engine cover/scoops etc. So wonder if they will do a painted hood with WP like they did with 991.2 GT3 RS? I know, hypothetical solution to hypothetical problems.
I wonder whether they've had to modify the oil sump to fit in the Cayman...
No ADM threads just yet,I'm surprised...but I can only imagine what they'll be asking since they're asking ADMs for a Honda...
I wonder whether they've had to modify the oil sump to fit in the Cayman...
No ADM threads just yet,I'm surprised...but I can only imagine what they'll be asking since they're asking ADMs for a Honda...
Affirmative, the major changes AP mentioned were Sump and throttle body actuator orientation (rotated 180 degrees).
I disagree. That's all there is to it really. Chevy is free to use Cup 2 R tires if they want and use a racing seat to protect their driver. It's their decision not to.
Where does it stop though?
Hoosier R7s are DOT approved. They are street-legal tires with a "tread." Would it be unethical for an automaker to market their new sports car with lap times using this tire? How about if this tire was not available on the car from the factory?
If it were 5-lug, i could be convinced to trade for my 992 GT3. Well maybe not, but this is a great car. Still has tractor suspension, but works well enough....
Yeah in my opinion the price for the GT4 RS is better than the GT3.
"Better" depends on what you are looking for out of a Porsche, as pointed out the GT3 definitely has some advantages over the 4RS, but on pricing alone...
The GT4RS base price includes buckets, and some of the most common options are notably more expensive in the GT3 making the price delta climb even more...
GT3 option pricing additional cost vs. same GT4RS option pricing:
Base GT3: +$20,700
Buckets: +$5,900
Leather/race-tex interior: +$2,570
Special paint: +$680
Front axle lift: + $630
11-17-2021, 03:55 PM
