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This thread closely parallels similar threads that started on the Audiworld E-tron forum after the 204 mile EPA range was revealed. With deliveries of the E-tron, real world data became available that generally collaborated the EPA estimated range; albeit with variability related to driving style, temperature, elevation, etc. Here is a link to a recent post where an owner posted his experience across a range of miles and temperatures. Around 50 degrees Fahrenheit he generally matched the EPA range, at higher temperatures he achieved higher range, peaking at about 110-120% of the EPA range estimate.

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/aud...2983350/page2/

Look for posts by 2KA6_2.7T

With time, we will see similar real world data for the Taycan. It is clear we will not see 350+ miles range like the EPA estimates for the Model S, or 300+ miles range like the EPA range estimates for the Model 3. These are very different cars with different pros and cons. I do not own either a Porsche or a Tesla, but am very interested in moving to an EV. I have been tempted by Tesla for many years, but have not been able to get past their build quality, lack of features seen in other cars in the price range, limited tech platform (no Apple CarPlay or Android Auto, no option for streaming and apps other than those built into the car or Bluetooth streaming from your phone), limited service infrastructure, etc.. Clearly Tesla has the lead on powertrain efficiency and charging infrastructure, Porsche, Audi and other manufacturers have the lead on quality and content of their cars.

I look forward to seeing more analyses of the sources of the differing efficiencies between the Model S and the Taycan. For example, how much is related to weight differences? How much is related to the two speed transmission? How much is related to battery management to allow for repeated high-speed runs? How much is related to different battery chemistry? I have not seen much in this regard so far.

We ordered an E-tron but cancelled our order due to the limited range. It would have been our primary road trip car and we were not ready for the inconvenience of limited range and limited charging infrastructure. That said, many people on the E-tron forum are perfectly happy with their purchase and do not have any concerns about the range limitation.

I have a reservation for a Taycan and will be test driving on Saturday. The limited range is less of a concern as it would not be our primary road trip car, but I am still concerned about expected rapid depreciation as newer technology comes on line in the next several years. Leasing would make the most sense for a Taycan, but the lease numbers I have seen so far are awful; I estimate a $130K MSRP 4S would lease at about $2400/month for 36/10 with no cap cost reduction (we pay 10% tax on lease payment). That is nearly 90K over three years on a $130K car. Buying would generally make more sense given the $7500 Federal tax incentive and the lack of sales tax in DC, but it will need to be a car I am happy to keep for many years to address the likely low value in 4-5 years.

Whoopsy

Again, you really do have a reading comprehension problem don't you? Or you are just too liberal in your own definitions.

First of all, ship isn't using one ****. It's a physical handle. Also, even with those that uses a '****', they have travel both ways from neutral position. Keyword, NEUTRAL POSITION. There is a clear separation between positive and negative value of input, and in the neutral position, there is neither.

Your Tesla's throttle only travels one way, it doesn't give you negative throttle input the other way around past the neutral position, plus the neutral position isn't actually neutral as that automatically engages the regenerative braking. It's a one way on/off switch, not like the 3 way like ship throttle, forward, neutral and reverse.

I never said Tesla's throttle engages the brakes, I said REGENERATIVE BRAKING when one lift off the throttle. The moment the driver press the brake pedal, physical brakes are engaged and no more regenerative braking.

So in a Tesla, you either get electrical propulsion, regenerative braking, physical braking, that's it, there is no coasting.

Normal cars and advance EVs have all those, plus coasting function.AND for the advance EVs, they have a CHOICE to whether engage throttle liftoff regenerative braking or not. It would seems the Tesla is the more technically challenged product that missing a function and don't give user a choice, don't u agree?

Whoopsy

It's as simple as it is written.

IF you are riding the brakes at all times, the throttle still works to propel you forward, but the moment you lift off the throttle, the brakes takeover and you stop.

What else is there to explain?

Dyefrog

I don't think anybody has alluded to the throttle inducing reverse. There's only forward and stop. So like the go lever of a boat where push up for forward, pull back to neutral to coast to a stop, the throttle behaves the same. Just no reverse. You also can't go into reverse with your ICE using only the 3 pedals of a standard. You must physically shift the transmission to do so.
And just to be clear, would your definition of coasting be the absence of propulsion that results in eventual stop due to frictional forces outside of the drivetrain?
You can turn regen off and coast on a Tesla if that's your preference. Exactly like an ICE. It even has creep mode.

Needsdecaf

Your understanding is incorrect.

1. You still get regen braking when you press the brake pedal. You're just adding it yourself to what the regen is now doing based on your foot having lifted off.
2. You 100% can coast in any Tesla. Just lift your foot until the power meter reads neither negative nor positive. It's mostly easy to get used to doing. The Model S / X have a better, clearer display that makes it easier. The Model 3 has a Black / Green power bar that you must get to the middle.

Certainly not as easy as simply lifting one's foot. But not all that hard either.

Read above. You can coast in a Tesla (and all other one-pedal EV's, or EV's that tie strong regen to one pedal like an i3). It's not that hard. Also, your analogy is false, even if you were to lift off, as "riding the brakes" means you are applying the brakes as you're driving, simultaneously propelling the car forward with the drive train and dragging it back with the brakes. This is not the same as an EV.

Needsdecaf

You can't turn it all the way off. Just to low. Which is a substantial reduction, but definitely not the same as coasting.

When I was learning how to move my foot to "coast" as noted in my post above, I couldn't believe how far the car would keep going and not slow when the power bar was in the "coast" zone. I thought, "this car might show that I'm neither applying power nor regenning, but I'm still rolling really freely, this can't be right". Then I learned how to put it in Neutral, and tried a few tests coasting in Neutral. It's ridiculous. It's like a freaking fidget spinner. The car just keeps rolling!

Dyefrog

I changed my setting tonight on my drive home to see just how similar the driving characteristics might be to an ICEV. I would have to say that the difference between that and any typical ICEV with an automatic transmission is on par with the difference between any two non-identical ICEV's with automatic transmissions, meaning negligible.
Now just in the interest of context, I haven't driven an ICEV since I bought my Tesla which was 18 months ago but my previous steed was a BMW 545 with an automatic transmission for comparisons.
There is a new setting that I must have gotten OTA previously called ROLL, whereas previously, you had CREEP and whatever they call the one pedal setup. I also set regen to low vs normal.
There was still some regen at least according to the gauge but hard to feel as on even a slight downhill, it would continue to coast until I hit the brake. I have to say though that I much rather prefer letting regen do my braking for me.

Bob Roberts

makes sense. many Tesla drivers also purchased the FSD package since they want the car to the driving for them. just like some people want the car to do the braking for them. different users, different use cases, different solutions.

Dyefrog

My reasoning has nothing to do with what you think it is.

daveo4porsche

@Whoopsy have you driven a Tesla for any length of time beyond a test drive - it's really quite easy to "coast" in a Tesla I do it all the time and it's not like riding the brakes all the time - but maybe your experience is different.

Bob Roberts

another Tesla owner who thinks they are a mind reader. Lol.

Needsdecaf

The car doesn’t brake for you unless you are running Active Cruise. The same as any other car with active cruise. If you are one pedal driving, you are 100% in control of your rate of slowing. You’re just not using the brakes to do it. I would state that once you’re used to it, you are much more in control of your braking up to the limit of the regen’s capabilities. Way more precise to simply move your foot a few mm, than to lift, coast, and apply braking.

Another non-Tesla owner who thinks all Tesla owners want to avoid driving.

Dyefrog

Read your quotes again and tell me who thinks they can read someones mind. I know for a fact why I prefer regen over mechanical brakes and I promise you it's not what you inferred above and since you responded to my comment, you implied it to me.

Bob Roberts

tell that to dyefrog. i responded to his comment "I much rather prefer letting regen do my braking for me."

4pipes