Taycan Turbo - EPA rated 201 miles
12-30-2019, 03:50 PM
#586
If it does have a heat pump, it would certainly be of benefit for those in colder climates. I had a '13 Leaf which did have the heat pump, whereas the earlier models did not and it was definitely more efficient between freezing and 60F with the heat pump than just using resistant heat.
It struck me odd that the Tesla's did not come with a heat pump or even a cold weather package option with one but they seem to have gone one better and use active and passive waste heat from the motors which I assume they crunched the numbers and was an overall advantage over the heat pump solution.
It struck me odd that the Tesla's did not come with a heat pump or even a cold weather package option with one but they seem to have gone one better and use active and passive waste heat from the motors which I assume they crunched the numbers and was an overall advantage over the heat pump solution.
12-30-2019, 03:56 PM
#587
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
If it does have a heat pump, it would certainly be of benefit for those in colder climates. I had a '13 Leaf which did have the heat pump, whereas the earlier models did not and it was definitely more efficient between freezing and 60F with the heat pump than just using resistant heat.
It struck me odd that the Tesla's did not come with a heat pump or even a cold weather package option with one but they seem to have gone one better and use active and passive waste heat from the motors which I assume they crunched the numbers and was an overall advantage over the heat pump solution.
It struck me odd that the Tesla's did not come with a heat pump or even a cold weather package option with one but they seem to have gone one better and use active and passive waste heat from the motors which I assume they crunched the numbers and was an overall advantage over the heat pump solution.
12-31-2019, 12:29 AM
#588
I'm not a BEV owner, and have limited time test-driving a Model S and an I-Pace. I have over a year's experience driving a Panamera E-Hybrid daily and plugging in every night. So I have this question for you BEV owners: When I hear this 1-pedal process, it sounds to me like it would be much more tedious -- in terms of leg pressure, etc. -- doing 1-pedal driving on a long-distance road trip than in a Porsche E-Hybrid or BEV (or ICEV). So it would be much more important to use ACC on long-distance trips with 1-pedal driving, it seems (i.e., "1-pedal" driving wouldn't work well without ACC for long-distance drives). I can see that 1-pedal driving would be good in heavy urban traffic, mainly. I'm thinking that Porsche has perhaps done it right with the Taycan in this regard? r.
12-31-2019, 01:19 AM
#589
Put differently, Taycan didnt need nearly 90KWh for power. Almost no >200 mile BEV does. The street purpose of power dense chemistries is basically defeated, as pack size increases (accept for the charging speed advantage). On track, spraying and soaking >250kw, constantly, probably favors them also.
Tesla's new patent sticks with energy dense NMC, but expresses a means to better deal with the higher heat, coming from what i presume is an energy dense battery's higher propensity to heat up.
As power density also raises mass/kwh, there is more "you can't have cake, and eat it too" going on.
12-31-2019, 12:07 PM
#591
Pro
Power dense batteries, like Cayenne's decent all electric mode acceleration vs. its near 1,000 watt hour per mile range (vs ~14kwh pack size) are a big performance vs range trade-off vs. energy dense Tesla batteries, which are stacked so much you get the power anyway. What helps the smaller PHEVs, including 918, is an advantage that goes away with pack size.
Put differently, Taycan didnt need nearly 90KWh for power. Almost no >200 mile BEV does. The street purpose of power dense chemistries is basically defeated, as pack size increases (accept for the charging speed advantage). On track, spraying and soaking >250kw, constantly, probably favors them also.
Tesla's new patent sticks with energy dense NMC, but expresses a means to better deal with the higher heat, coming from what i presume is an energy dense battery's higher propensity to heat up.
As power density also raises mass/kwh, there is more "you can't have cake, and eat it too" going on.
Put differently, Taycan didnt need nearly 90KWh for power. Almost no >200 mile BEV does. The street purpose of power dense chemistries is basically defeated, as pack size increases (accept for the charging speed advantage). On track, spraying and soaking >250kw, constantly, probably favors them also.
Tesla's new patent sticks with energy dense NMC, but expresses a means to better deal with the higher heat, coming from what i presume is an energy dense battery's higher propensity to heat up.
As power density also raises mass/kwh, there is more "you can't have cake, and eat it too" going on.
If that's the case, then is it reasonable to expect other cars from VAG to produce better efficiency in the near future? Any thoughts on why we aren't seeing that from the etron?
12-31-2019, 12:44 PM
#592
Burning Brakes
what are they expecting for the 4s? 225mi?
12-31-2019, 01:37 PM
#593
Burning Brakes
I don't think this is correct. Tesla is the fastest when it is fully charged and is in ludicrous easter egg mode which heats up the battery to increase its power. That shows its 100kWh battery is a limiting factor in max power.
12-31-2019, 01:49 PM
#594
Burning Brakes
OK, if I understand what you are saying (and I'm not sure I have it correct), is that if the Taycan were willing to accept slightly lower performance, they could have done the same range with a smaller battery, or possibly, longer range with the existing battery.
If that's the case, then is it reasonable to expect other cars from VAG to produce better efficiency in the near future? Any thoughts on why we aren't seeing that from the etron?
If that's the case, then is it reasonable to expect other cars from VAG to produce better efficiency in the near future? Any thoughts on why we aren't seeing that from the etron?
As was pointed out, this is a greater problem in EVs with relatively small battery packs. As packs grow larger, the load is spread out and the cells are less highly stressed.
12-31-2019, 02:03 PM
#595
Burning Brakes
"Driving in range mode means driving with the most efficient all-wheel distribution possible. In extreme cases, the Taycan will even drive exclusively on the front axle. Air conditioning, hydraulic pumps, air suspension and headlights also operate in their most efficient configurations."
Audi E-Tron also remains in all wheel drive mode. Unlike the Mercedes EQC which switches to the PM motor only when no extra power is needed.
One more thing that affects efficiency is that both the Taycan's and E-Tron's motor is tuned for max efficiency at max power. One can observer this when comparing their consumption at high speeds. E-tron has higher consumption than Model X at 65mph. But at around 125mph their consumption is equal.
Taycan's motors have to be efficient at max power in order to keep the motors cool. Their inverters are also very efficient at near 98%. I wonder if these are SiC inverters. Additionally - based on the EPA data - Taycan has the best aerodynamics.
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Thinc2 (12-31-2019)
12-31-2019, 02:31 PM
#596
Rennlist Member
1 pedal on highways isn't worse, in a BEV, like no lift throttle regen is going to feel like "v1.0" in a Taycan, in traffic. It is being sold as a street car. This is a street feature, where i would focus more on whether the car faces fast, sudden slowing, dense traffic.
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Garydose (01-04-2020)
12-31-2019, 02:43 PM
#597
In engineering perspective one pedal driving is the most normal and natural way to control output. Push to increase output and pull to decrease it. Every engineering product is designed this way. We had been doing it the hard way simply because there were no good solutions with ICE.
12-31-2019, 02:58 PM
#598
Burning Brakes
In engineering perspective one pedal driving is the most normal and natural way to control output. Push to increase output and pull to decrease it. Every engineering product is designed this way. We had been doing it the hard way simply because there were no good solutions with ICE.
12-31-2019, 03:26 PM
#599
12-31-2019, 03:29 PM
#600
Rennlist Member
one pedal driving is proportional - it's not all or nothing - if you only life a little you only get a little regen - if you lift all the way you get full regents…I really find it no problem.