Amen.

...and the Tesla Cybertruck appears to be the first vehicle that meets all the metrics. Specifically, the 3-motor variant with ~500 mile range. Maybe Tesla will swing and miss like Porsche did with the Taycan - time will tell.

 

Why are you spinning around the depreciation? It is a speculation.
Additionally no one who worries about depreciation should buy a car in the $150k-$200k range. My rule of thumb is that I can't have more money in cars than 10% of my total portfolio (but prefer even less). Now if they depreciate 30% in the first year, which Tesla S performance models were able to achieve, my total portfolio would be affected by 3% only.


Your technical comments don't make much sense and aren't supported by facts. Non technical comments don't make sense either. What is "Taycan is not innovative"? By what measure? I can give you a long list of innovation in this car.

The chassis for example. It is always an evolution and Tesla started from miles behind.
Keep in mind Tesla Model S chassis was obsolete as soon as it came out as it barely passed the side pole crash test. Both S and X chassis is dangerous in frontal pole crash. Model X chassis with its wing door causes constant issues.
Model 3 chassis got hundreds of suggestions for improvement from a manufacturing expert and keeps changing over time.

Also I shouldn't remind you what Elon promised regarding self driving and where they are now compared to that.

 

Are you aware that you are talking about a non-existent product? At least wait for a US or worldwide type approval.

 

I'm still waiting on the level 4 self-driving Mission E with 300 miles of range priced between the Cayenne and the Panamera - the car I expected them to deliver that would blow Tesla out of the water. Instead I'm most interested in an ev truck now from a company that prior to the Taycan details emerging and the convincing arguments in support of Tesla made by Porsche-owning members of this forum I was encouraging everyone to short (glad I never took my own advice).

 

You are waiting for a product from someone who is even worse at over-promising.

Additionally don't expect a luxury car having less consumption than a barefoot model. It never worked like that. More content = more weight and more electric consumers. Tesla's number one goal is to have long range. And to achieve that they are ok with subpar performance in other areas and they also don't mind to artificially inflate EPA numbers so one can achieve them in good weather and at around 50mph only. You want more range? Inflate your tires up to 45psi, but then don't ask me why these accidents happen: https://insideevs.com/news/393218/vi...model-3-crash/ //nope this car wasn't hydroplaning

 

This is a ridiculous statement. Tesla, like every other manufacturer offering cars for sale in the US, quotes EPA efficiency figures.

 

Spoken like a true Tesla hater and kool aid drinking P car owner. Funny how the diehard P cars owners just love to hate the Tesla. Face it they are 10 yrs ahead of ANY other company trying to succeed in the EV business. BTW I will take a leader like Musk (crazy as hell) over any Leader at Porsche to be willing to breakthrough the barriers of the unknown to create the best EV platforms.

Cant wait for the first Taycan to have an accident, then what will be your angle of hatred be.

 

There are a number of us here who own and enjoy both. But from what I can tell from posts here and in other forums, acoste owns neither. He is somehow working for BMW.

I find Elon to be an endless source of inspiration and amusement. Fortunately I don’t have to work for him. (Though I know several people who do, and have.)

 

What will be a real kick in the teeth for Porsche sympathizers is the admission from the top guy at VW, Herbert Diess that Tesla not only got it right, but they are years ahead of everybody. VW wants to be like Tesla. Ain't that a hoot?
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...sierung-tesla/

"What we lack is above all speed and the courage to take powerful, if necessary, radical change of direction", the time "gives us exactly one attempt to secure Volkswagen for the future. Let us use it. "
"The time of classic car manufacturers is over "and" We are valued like an automobile company. Tesla like a tech company."
This should demystify any wondering why Tesla has a market cap equivalent to VW and soon to be higher. For comparison, Waymo is valued higher than VW and they don't make cars but focus on autonomous vehicles which Tesla also does.

"In the future, the automobile will be the most complex, valuable, mass-market Internet device . We will spend more time in the automobile of the future than today, maybe two hours instead of one.
That is why it is not becoming a gray box, but much more comfortable, cozy and, above all, more networked, multifunctional than today."

"When we see that, we understand why Tesla is so valuable from an analyst's perspective. We as Volkswagen also want to go exactly there.
The big question is: are we fast enough? The honest answer is: maybe, but it's getting more critical. If we continue at our current pace, it will be very tight."

"Dear colleagues, this is exactly the situation that is repeated in the automotive industry. The car is no longer just a means of transport. And that also means:
The time of classic automobile manufacturers is over . The future of Volkswagen lies in the digital tech group - and only there. And we will need an additional catch-up program to mobilize all of the Group's potential for this."

And finally:
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesm...to-spring-2021

 

Here's why range is important in the Taycan: because if you are outside the Tesla network, access to fast charging can be a right pain in the ****! Broken chargers, occupied chargers, multiple providers, sign in issues, etc.

Harry Metcalfe, formerly the founder of Evo Magazine and now the author of a pretty cool Farming video series!, has been living with a Jag iPace to see if he can live with one long term. His answer is mixed. This video is a good indication of life in England with a non-Tesla EV. Spoiler alert...Harry doesn't have much luck with public fast chargers. His assessment: until the fast charging network is fixed, plan to live with your car tethered to the home charger on a string, radius is predicted mileage * 80% / 2. Note, the iPace has been averaging over 400 Wh/mile in his tenure. Thirstier than even a Model X! No bueno. Looks like real world range, rated at over 200, is more like 170-180.


Bjorn Nyland encountered something similar last year after doing a European road-trip in his Model 3. This video is tongue-in-cheek and worth a watch.

 

Both BMW and Tesla are our customers. And many others.

 

So we are still arguing why a Rolls Royce Ghost has less range than a Corolla. 🙄

 

Not everyone has an entire stable of cars like you do. Yourself.

This video is a pretty fair use case assessment by a real world driver, using today's available resources. He borrowed a few iPaces and put over 2,000 miles on them to legitimately see if he could live with an EV for the "daily driver". What I wrote above was HIS conclusion, not mine. Harry is a person with world class experience with cars and not a luddite either. He is genuinely curious and genuinely interested in owning an EV.

So no, we're not arguing anything. I'm posting something relevant to the discussion and you're choosing to be a boor. Which is your perogative, I'm certainly not going to tell you how to live your life. You want to make this about what type of car it is, that's entirely besides the point. I bring up the Tesla because Harry mentions the difference in charging networks in the video multiple times, not because I have any agenda. He specifically mentions that 1. there are way more Tesla chargers 2. That there are empty stalls at the Tesla chargers that he sees and 3. That with the Tesla it's plug and play. Did you even watch the video? If you did, you will understand why this is a relevant point, and not some pro-Tesla chest thumping. If you want to think it is, well, I'll just point to my review of the Taycan and let you draw your own conclusions.

 

https://teslike.com/range/
Some notes, ignore the last "real world range" columns. Not all of them are accurate. The guy may have misunderstood CR's test. But the EPA notes below the table have a lot of information.

 

Awesome contribution, bravo.