Spyder value
11-05-2012, 09:38 PM
#76
Nordschleife Master
Everyone of them knew this was a special car, a unique driving experience, a memory to treasure! The fact is that historians will probably judge this model as ONE of the most significant Porsches ever created! In time, it might be perceived as 'special' as the classic 356 Speedster of the 1950's! ...
The Spyder is a Boxster variant for fair-weather only, designed as a minimalist lighter-weight Boxster, and at that with a number of controversial design aspects. Some cars were bought with minimal options and those fulfilled the design objectives. However, many others abound with leather everywhere, stereos and other doodads negating the design objective and are generally garage queens. Will those survive and become a classic? I think not. Like many Porsches they will be a footnote among many other Spyders continuing with a 981 variant, and another, and another.I note that several multi-car Porsche collectors I know who purchased the Spyder sold them quickly after they got it (or used it for a summer).
Last edited by ADias; 11-05-2012 at 10:34 PM.
11-06-2012, 01:44 AM
#77
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Amar and Cetro: Don't get confused or alarmed! We looked with Donavan at the photos he provided in the thread I linked and the consensus among us was that it was not a 'deal breaker'. Donavan's previous two Spyders were bought brand new...and remember he had ordered a brand new 981, which he cancelled to get this third Spyder. So his expectations might have been unrealistic since, regardless the low miles, this car was not new and had been used as a display vehicle by PCNA! It is clear that Donavan was expecting perfection and was disappointed when the car arrived in Portland from Atlanta! Ellis apparently oversold its pristine condition. But not all buyers are as picky as Donavan! Cetro, you are presently looking for a used Spyder and this car will probably meet your expectations as a 'used' Porsche! I think most of us here on Rennlist, in the end, will agree with me that your acquisition of #5190 from Sunset was a very good one! My suggestion is for you (cetro) to take a cheap flight to Portland and see it for yourself so as to remove all doubts. Had Donavan followed this wise advice, he could have avoided these headaches!
The fact that Donavan has owned and sold three Spyders doesn't tell you much about the Spyder...other than the fact that it has held a spell over one individual customer for over nearly three years! His reasons for selling in each case revolve around the particulars of his automotive needs, his finances and timing! There are many folks all over the world that bought a Spyder based on the incredible reviews, the alluring good looks or the incredible experience of the test drives! But in the real world of limited funds and/or limited parking spaces, it is not surprising that some found the Spyder not practical as their everyday car. So they sold it. But I have yet to meet a former owner that doesn't reminisce about the Spyder ownership experience, regardless how brief, or who fails to get nostalgic just thinking about it! Everyone of them knew this was a special car, a unique driving experience, a memory to treasure! The fact is that historians will probably judge this model as ONE of the most significant Porsches ever created! In time, it might be perceived as 'special' as the classic 356 Speedster of the 1950's! And for all of these ex-Spyder owners including Donavan, it will be a case to better to have loved and sold, than not have loved (and not bought) at all!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
The fact that Donavan has owned and sold three Spyders doesn't tell you much about the Spyder...other than the fact that it has held a spell over one individual customer for over nearly three years! His reasons for selling in each case revolve around the particulars of his automotive needs, his finances and timing! There are many folks all over the world that bought a Spyder based on the incredible reviews, the alluring good looks or the incredible experience of the test drives! But in the real world of limited funds and/or limited parking spaces, it is not surprising that some found the Spyder not practical as their everyday car. So they sold it. But I have yet to meet a former owner that doesn't reminisce about the Spyder ownership experience, regardless how brief, or who fails to get nostalgic just thinking about it! Everyone of them knew this was a special car, a unique driving experience, a memory to treasure! The fact is that historians will probably judge this model as ONE of the most significant Porsches ever created! In time, it might be perceived as 'special' as the classic 356 Speedster of the 1950's! And for all of these ex-Spyder owners including Donavan, it will be a case to better to have loved and sold, than not have loved (and not bought) at all!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
On this particular vehicle, I'm paying premium because of the mileage and the condition they are stating. Now I'm not sure if it's worth the premium. I wish I could fly out and look at it, but my schedule will not allow me
11-06-2012, 03:07 AM
#78
Me, I tend to be more crude and outspoken. Why does a Spyder faithful sell a Spyder 3 times? If I may be so presumptuous, IMO he's not a true Spyder faithful. I think he likes the idea of a Spyder much more than owning & driving one day-to-day in real life.
11-06-2012, 08:35 AM
#79
And then hyperbole has risen. The Spyder is a Boxster variant for fair-weather only, designed as a minimalist lighter-weight Boxster, and at that with a number of controversial design aspects. Some cars were bought with minimal options and those fulfilled the design objectives. However, many others abound with leather everywhere, stereos and other doodads negating the design objective and are generally garage queens. Will those survive and become a classic? I think not. Like many Porsches they will be a footnote among many other Spyders continuing with a 981 variant, and another, and another.
I note that several multi-car Porsche collectors I know who purchased the Spyder sold them quickly after they got it (or used it for a summer).
The Spyder is a Boxster variant for fair-weather only, designed as a minimalist lighter-weight Boxster, and at that with a number of controversial design aspects. Some cars were bought with minimal options and those fulfilled the design objectives. However, many others abound with leather everywhere, stereos and other doodads negating the design objective and are generally garage queens. Will those survive and become a classic? I think not. Like many Porsches they will be a footnote among many other Spyders continuing with a 981 variant, and another, and another.I note that several multi-car Porsche collectors I know who purchased the Spyder sold them quickly after they got it (or used it for a summer).
The much anticipated 981 spyder variant i suspect will come. HOWEVER, it will no longer come with a manual roof and IMO will lose the essence of a lightweight. You may be correct in that porsche cannot resist the end of life marketing appeal of a spyder and this time, they will make one that looks different and doesn't have a manual roof. akin to the 997 speedster. Which is an auto roof which manual adjustment for latching. Note the speedster weighs the same as the cabrio. So you may be right. In fact I think you will be but 987 spyders will always be special because Porsche mis-calculated the number of hardcore boxster fans and as eventual owners, we all benefit.
Disclaimer: I have 2 spyders so I am doubly motivated to defend it....lol
11-06-2012, 08:38 AM
#80
Eduardo is a fine gentleman and he stated it very nicely indeed.
Me, I tend to be more crude and outspoken. Why does a Spyder faithful sell a Spyder 3 times? If I may be so presumptuous, IMO he's not a true Spyder faithful. I think he likes the idea of a Spyder much more than owning & driving one day-to-day in real life.
Me, I tend to be more crude and outspoken. Why does a Spyder faithful sell a Spyder 3 times? If I may be so presumptuous, IMO he's not a true Spyder faithful. I think he likes the idea of a Spyder much more than owning & driving one day-to-day in real life.
Oh, and please continue to keep up the website Donovan...
11-06-2012, 11:58 AM
#81
Rennlist Member
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...er-spyder.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/9800388-post133.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/parts-ma...ket-seats.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...ket-seats.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...rom-today.html
AAaaannnd 3....2....1..... Plavan: that's your cue!
https://rennlist.com/forums/9800388-post133.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/parts-ma...ket-seats.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...ket-seats.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...rom-today.html
AAaaannnd 3....2....1..... Plavan: that's your cue!
I have run a personal racing website in the past, I can take all of our Spyder Info and start another if you guys feel safe with me keeping it going. Let me know.
11-06-2012, 11:58 AM
#82
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"that's why manual/buckets are highly prized and to a lesser extent non-AC cars"
Funny, many reviews I read complained how uncomfortable and awkward the bucket seats are for any period of time. They also wear much quicker because of the placement of the stitches on the side bolsters. Dealers didn't like ordering them as they just sat in the showrooms. They have a 'cool factor' I will give you that, and their after-market cost is extreme, but I think this is more to do with supply and demand.
Reviews of non-AC or non-Stereo cars also said these were options you should not skip on if you really wanted to live with the Spyder. Honestly, the difference between a fully stripped Boxster and a fully loaded one (apart from PDK) is less than the weight of a tank of gas - we are talking maybe 2-3% tops. I doubt if a 2-3% weight savings (we are talking the equivalent of under 10hp here), make much difference in the car at all in the real world.
I think what makes the Spyder unique is the whole package, the lack of PASM, the low ride height, the finely tuned suspension, the excellent steering, the tune of the engine, the beautiful rear deck with the GT-like humps. Many reviews said they felt this was the best handling Porsche ever, and those reviews were not reviews of stripped out cars and very often had a passenger in the seat that added 180lb+ to the weight of the car anyway...
Andy
Funny, many reviews I read complained how uncomfortable and awkward the bucket seats are for any period of time. They also wear much quicker because of the placement of the stitches on the side bolsters. Dealers didn't like ordering them as they just sat in the showrooms. They have a 'cool factor' I will give you that, and their after-market cost is extreme, but I think this is more to do with supply and demand.
Reviews of non-AC or non-Stereo cars also said these were options you should not skip on if you really wanted to live with the Spyder. Honestly, the difference between a fully stripped Boxster and a fully loaded one (apart from PDK) is less than the weight of a tank of gas - we are talking maybe 2-3% tops. I doubt if a 2-3% weight savings (we are talking the equivalent of under 10hp here), make much difference in the car at all in the real world.
I think what makes the Spyder unique is the whole package, the lack of PASM, the low ride height, the finely tuned suspension, the excellent steering, the tune of the engine, the beautiful rear deck with the GT-like humps. Many reviews said they felt this was the best handling Porsche ever, and those reviews were not reviews of stripped out cars and very often had a passenger in the seat that added 180lb+ to the weight of the car anyway...
Andy
11-06-2012, 12:26 PM
#83
I have never seen the sport bucket seats described as uncomfortable. Just the opposite in fact. They are probably the most comfortable seat offered by Porsche. It does take a bit more effort to get in and out, but you develop a technique, sort of like how those with a Lotus become adept at entry and exit. With the proper technique, the wear on the seats is no different than any other seat. Some people just don't care and drag their fat backside across the bolster on any seat. Probably the same ones who whine about the comfort.
While the non-A/C cars may fulfill some romantic fantasy of days gone by, they are extremely difficult to sell. Particularly anywhere where it is warm - just the climate where a Spyder makes the most sense. Unless it's a dedicated track car, I cannot see where the A/C delete makes any sense at all. In the summer here, it's too hot to take the top off and A/C is almost mandatory. We are now entering the perfect top down season in AZ.
While the non-A/C cars may fulfill some romantic fantasy of days gone by, they are extremely difficult to sell. Particularly anywhere where it is warm - just the climate where a Spyder makes the most sense. Unless it's a dedicated track car, I cannot see where the A/C delete makes any sense at all. In the summer here, it's too hot to take the top off and A/C is almost mandatory. We are now entering the perfect top down season in AZ.
11-06-2012, 01:25 PM
#84
Nordschleife Master
Funny, many reviews I read complained how uncomfortable and awkward the bucket seats are for any period of time. They also wear much quicker because of the placement of the stitches on the side bolsters. Dealers didn't like ordering them as they just sat in the showrooms.
1) they are more difficult to get in/out of
2) they sit higher than the sport seats, which is an issue for taller guys that need to pass the broomstick test at the track. Solution is the remove the seat cushion at the track.
I have never seen the sport bucket seats described as uncomfortable. Just the opposite in fact. They are probably the most comfortable seat offered by Porsche. It does take a bit more effort to get in and out, but you develop a technique, sort of like how those with a Lotus become adept at entry and exit. With the proper technique, the wear on the seats is no different than any other seat. Some people just don't care and drag their fat backside across the bolster on any seat. Probably the same ones who whine about the comfort.
11-06-2012, 01:27 PM
#85
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Well... it doesn't take an expert to figure out this type shopping behavior is not normal. Normal people don't even switch cell phones 3 times in 2 years, let alone premium automobiles. But let's not rip on Donavan alone. Car swappings is just as abundan on 997 and 991 forums. Coming from less value cars, really was an eyeopener. I guess it really is, mo money mo problems.
Donavan, I said this when you got this past one. I truly hope you'll find satisfaction to whatever you are trying to achieve, sense of fulfillment, identity, the perfect car or whatever, I am not a shrink. But it seems no automobile will quite do it.
Centro, did you see the pictures on dspyda.com? IMO the car is more than fine. The flaws are really minor stuff. Don't fuzz the small stuff. In terms of dollar amount, those flaws do not de-valued the car. The car came with extra thick clear coat and cool Cayman R wheels. Have you driven any Spyders?
To me the Spyder can really be the definitive "end all, be all" kinda car, without breaking the bank. With all the Porsche offerings in the last few years, you would have to get the speedster, sport classic, GT2 RS or 4 liter RS, to get that type of "special-ness."
If you read my posts, I often compare the Spyder to a single malt scotch, a malt mater's creation, an engineer's project, a connoisseur's car. It might not be a sales or marketing success, but years from now, it will be remembered as a car that was conceived and implemented by the engineers, mechanical engineers, chassis engineers, powertrain engineers. With everchanging sales competition and government regulations, cars are going to be more marketing and accounting driven, as well as electrical and computer science driven.
Years from now, it might even represent a "end of an era" type of car. Maybe not the the extend of aircooled -> water cooled. But more like when a garage band goes mainstream rock. When those aircooled cars finally kick the curb, the spyder is the next logical choice. Air cooled or water cooled, the Spyder is just plain cool.
So Centro, get the car, congrats. To all Spyder owners, I hope you all see it the way I do. It is Christmas everytime I take a sip of this malt. Cherish and hold on.
Donavan, I said this when you got this past one. I truly hope you'll find satisfaction to whatever you are trying to achieve, sense of fulfillment, identity, the perfect car or whatever, I am not a shrink. But it seems no automobile will quite do it.
Centro, did you see the pictures on dspyda.com? IMO the car is more than fine. The flaws are really minor stuff. Don't fuzz the small stuff. In terms of dollar amount, those flaws do not de-valued the car. The car came with extra thick clear coat and cool Cayman R wheels. Have you driven any Spyders?
To me the Spyder can really be the definitive "end all, be all" kinda car, without breaking the bank. With all the Porsche offerings in the last few years, you would have to get the speedster, sport classic, GT2 RS or 4 liter RS, to get that type of "special-ness."
If you read my posts, I often compare the Spyder to a single malt scotch, a malt mater's creation, an engineer's project, a connoisseur's car. It might not be a sales or marketing success, but years from now, it will be remembered as a car that was conceived and implemented by the engineers, mechanical engineers, chassis engineers, powertrain engineers. With everchanging sales competition and government regulations, cars are going to be more marketing and accounting driven, as well as electrical and computer science driven.
Years from now, it might even represent a "end of an era" type of car. Maybe not the the extend of aircooled -> water cooled. But more like when a garage band goes mainstream rock. When those aircooled cars finally kick the curb, the spyder is the next logical choice. Air cooled or water cooled, the Spyder is just plain cool.
So Centro, get the car, congrats. To all Spyder owners, I hope you all see it the way I do. It is Christmas everytime I take a sip of this malt. Cherish and hold on.
11-06-2012, 01:31 PM
#86
Nordschleife Master
Not to sound harsh, but I feel sorry for him. I'm actually laughing right now. I called it twice. You cant try to understand people with car A.D.D. He will probably disappear again, not answer emails, and forget about the the Spyder site just like the last 2 times (now 3 times)
I have run a personal racing website in the past, I can take all of our Spyder Info and start another if you guys feel safe with me keeping it going. Let me know.
I have run a personal racing website in the past, I can take all of our Spyder Info and start another if you guys feel safe with me keeping it going. Let me know.
Why don't we just start our own registry thread here, just like the RS60 and GT3 guys?
11-06-2012, 01:32 PM
#87
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http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...st_test/?ti=v3
"The fixed-back carbon-fiber race seats aren't the least bit practical for everyday use, nor are they particularly comfortable for extended trips on less-than-absolutely-perfect pavement"
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-spyder-review
"add a healthy dose of bolstering, which nicely snugs up the seats but does make ingress and egress a challenge"
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/au...anted=all&_r=0
Still, even the most hard-core enthusiasts can complain about the seats, which are limiting. They are built for Euro-thin physiques and can be moved only backward and forward.
"The fixed-back carbon-fiber race seats aren't the least bit practical for everyday use, nor are they particularly comfortable for extended trips on less-than-absolutely-perfect pavement"
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-spyder-review
"add a healthy dose of bolstering, which nicely snugs up the seats but does make ingress and egress a challenge"
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/au...anted=all&_r=0
Still, even the most hard-core enthusiasts can complain about the seats, which are limiting. They are built for Euro-thin physiques and can be moved only backward and forward.
11-06-2012, 01:39 PM
#88
Nordschleife Master
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...st_test/?ti=v3
"The fixed-back carbon-fiber race seats aren't the least bit practical for everyday use, nor are they particularly comfortable for extended trips on less-than-absolutely-perfect pavement"
"The fixed-back carbon-fiber race seats aren't the least bit practical for everyday use, nor are they particularly comfortable for extended trips on less-than-absolutely-perfect pavement"
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-spyder-review
"add a healthy dose of bolstering, which nicely snugs up the seats but does make ingress and egress a challenge"
"add a healthy dose of bolstering, which nicely snugs up the seats but does make ingress and egress a challenge"
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/au...anted=all&_r=0
Still, even the most hard-core enthusiasts can complain about the seats, which are limiting. They are built for Euro-thin physiques and can be moved only backward and forward.
Still, even the most hard-core enthusiasts can complain about the seats, which are limiting. They are built for Euro-thin physiques and can be moved only backward and forward.
Nonetheless, you've proven your point that there are reviews out there which don't like the bucket seats. However, there are plenty out there that DO like them.
11-06-2012, 01:41 PM
#89
Rennlist Member
Correct me if I am wrong but I really feel that sypder has a more passionate fan base than Cayman R. It surpirsing coz you would expect the CR to be the more hard core group being the more track oriented car. A baby RS is you will.
So Joe, I own a Carrera4S. Does it make me a non-enthusiast
So Joe, I own a Carrera4S. Does it make me a non-enthusiast
11-06-2012, 01:54 PM
#90
Nordschleife Master