Spyder value
11-06-2012, 01:54 PM
#91
Correct me if I am wrong but I really feel that sypder has a more passionate fan base than Cayman R. It surpirsing coz you would expect the CR to be the more hard core group being the more track oriented car. A baby RS is you will.
So Joe, I own a Carrera4S. Does it make me a non-enthusiast
So Joe, I own a Carrera4S. Does it make me a non-enthusiast
Although I did own a Spyder in the past. I just felt more comfortable with a thin sheet of tin over my head instead of a thin sheet of cloth. Although with the roll hoops, the Spyder may actually be safer.
11-06-2012, 02:10 PM
#92
Nordschleife Master
11-06-2012, 02:10 PM
#93
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Correct me if I am wrong but I really feel that sypder has a more passionate fan base than Cayman R. It surpirsing coz you would expect the CR to be the more hard core group being the more track oriented car. A baby RS is you will.
So Joe, I own a Carrera4S. Does it make me a non-enthusiast
So Joe, I own a Carrera4S. Does it make me a non-enthusiast
Enthusiasm is defined by attitude, not equipment. And the guys who are so consumed with kilograms, lap times, buying mods and changing cars indiscriminately, are somewhat missing the point.
To me, spyder/roadster owners are, in a more traditional sense, more of a purist. The old school definition of a sports car, has no roof. For someone to ignore most practicality to have "cool" and "special" factor, is not a vanity thing, but rather a sensory thing.
Plus for a sports car driver to hide under a roof, he must be 1. ugly 2. has bad taste in music 3. doesn't own a hat.
11-06-2012, 02:11 PM
#94
Nordschleife Master
Enthusiasm is defined by attitude, not equipment. And the guys who are so consumed with kilograms, lap times, buying mods and changing cars indiscriminately, are somewhat missing the point.
To me, spyder/roadster owners are, in a more traditional sense, more of a purist. The old school definition of a sports car, has no roof. For someone to ignore most practicality to have "cool" and "special" factor, is not a vanity thing, but rather a sensory thing.
To me, spyder/roadster owners are, in a more traditional sense, more of a purist. The old school definition of a sports car, has no roof. For someone to ignore most practicality to have "cool" and "special" factor, is not a vanity thing, but rather a sensory thing.
11-06-2012, 02:29 PM
#95
Rennlist Member
You got me there 
So true and very well stated. A very good friend of mine owns a C2S. He has owned this car since 2009 and has done nothing but enjoy the car all round the year. He is such a Porsche cognoscenti yet does not have any desire to load his garage or his car with must have model line up or mods just prove to himself or the rest of the world that he is a true enthusiast. I wish I could be like him.
So true and very well stated. A very good friend of mine owns a C2S. He has owned this car since 2009 and has done nothing but enjoy the car all round the year. He is such a Porsche cognoscenti yet does not have any desire to load his garage or his car with must have model line up or mods just prove to himself or the rest of the world that he is a true enthusiast. I wish I could be like him.
11-06-2012, 03:12 PM
#96
Rennlist Member
The Spyder is a Boxster variant for fair-weather only, designed as a minimalist lighter-weight Boxster, and at that with a number of controversial design aspects...And we are all expecting the 981 Spyder, should it see the light of day, to be like the 356 Convertible D that followed the Speedster - more civilized for daily use and greater sales volume, but missing the special touches that made the original car unique. Values reflect this.
So are those that have sold their Spyders fools to let a coveted classic go? Not really - that is probably 30+ years away.
11-06-2012, 03:51 PM
#97
Correct me if I am wrong but I really feel that sypder has a more passionate fan base than Cayman R. It surpirsing coz you would expect the CR to be the more hard core group being the more track oriented car. A baby RS is you will.
So Joe, I own a Carrera4S. Does it make me a non-enthusiast
So Joe, I own a Carrera4S. Does it make me a non-enthusiast
11-07-2012, 12:21 AM
#98
"that's why manual/buckets are highly prized and to a lesser extent non-AC cars"
Funny, many reviews I read complained how uncomfortable and awkward the bucket seats are for any period of time. They also wear much quicker because of the placement of the stitches on the side bolsters. Dealers didn't like ordering them as they just sat in the showrooms. They have a 'cool factor' I will give you that, and their after-market cost is extreme, but I think this is more to do with supply and demand.
Reviews of non-AC or non-Stereo cars also said these were options you should not skip on if you really wanted to live with the Spyder. Honestly, the difference between a fully stripped Boxster and a fully loaded one (apart from PDK) is less than the weight of a tank of gas - we are talking maybe 2-3% tops. I doubt if a 2-3% weight savings (we are talking the equivalent of under 10hp here), make much difference in the car at all in the real world.
I think what makes the Spyder unique is the whole package, the lack of PASM, the low ride height, the finely tuned suspension, the excellent steering, the tune of the engine, the beautiful rear deck with the GT-like humps. Many reviews said they felt this was the best handling Porsche ever, and those reviews were not reviews of stripped out cars and very often had a passenger in the seat that added 180lb+ to the weight of the car anyway...
Andy
Funny, many reviews I read complained how uncomfortable and awkward the bucket seats are for any period of time. They also wear much quicker because of the placement of the stitches on the side bolsters. Dealers didn't like ordering them as they just sat in the showrooms. They have a 'cool factor' I will give you that, and their after-market cost is extreme, but I think this is more to do with supply and demand.
Reviews of non-AC or non-Stereo cars also said these were options you should not skip on if you really wanted to live with the Spyder. Honestly, the difference between a fully stripped Boxster and a fully loaded one (apart from PDK) is less than the weight of a tank of gas - we are talking maybe 2-3% tops. I doubt if a 2-3% weight savings (we are talking the equivalent of under 10hp here), make much difference in the car at all in the real world.
I think what makes the Spyder unique is the whole package, the lack of PASM, the low ride height, the finely tuned suspension, the excellent steering, the tune of the engine, the beautiful rear deck with the GT-like humps. Many reviews said they felt this was the best handling Porsche ever, and those reviews were not reviews of stripped out cars and very often had a passenger in the seat that added 180lb+ to the weight of the car anyway...
Andy
BTW, I have no problem with Spyders having AC and radio (or not). I will say, however, that I have yet to use the AC in my Spyder and used it seldomly in the S. To a certain extent, it has to do with what you're expecting from a sports car/roadster and how "pampered" you want to be - Spyder is not a 4,500 lb. Merc or Lexus. But I will admit that I'll most likely feel differently if I lived in AZ, TX, FL, etc.
Last edited by the_vetman; 11-07-2012 at 12:46 AM.
11-07-2012, 12:40 AM
#99
There's no doubt at all that CR is a fantastic car and twins with Spyder. However, I'm definitely beginning to think that a stock Spyder with sturdy, thick roll bar is actually safer than a stock CR with no such roll bar (thin roof doesn't count). I keep hearing people say over and over how I "need" a coupe for the track.... not.
If we're talking about torsional rigidity, Excellence magazine's comparo with van Overbeek showed that a Spyder was actually faster around a track than CR. AND, the Spyder weighed more due to differing options. I admit that this is not an exact proof/scientific evidence or anything like that.
Finally, Clinton you're making me thirsty with your repeated single malt comments!!
I'm currently out of stock with single malt scotch... cuz I drank it all last week!
11-07-2012, 01:37 AM
#100
Nordschleife Master
May I humbly suggest that you check actual facts before posting? Yes, I saw your links - and my sentiments mirror Joe's (especially the fat part) and Bill's. No, they're not just for the "cool factor". A fully stripped Spyder's weight savings is more than a full tank of gas... Do you own a Spyder with sport buckets? Or have done extensive driving in one?
Like I said, you won't find a single person here who actually has the sport buckets complaining about them. Rationalize all you want. The reality is that as soon as you see and sit in one, you won't be able to sleep until you have them in your own car. I know this from personal experience.
11-07-2012, 01:39 AM
#101
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the_vetman - 'Do you own a Spyder with sport buckets? Or have done extensive driving in one?'
No, I have a Spyder with heated seats, which was more important to me in a convertible. I took offense to the attitude that anything other than buckets was somehow inferior - I agree, they are a bargain when they come as a zero cost option, but not everyone wants them. I owned an Elise for a couple of years, those seats weight less than half what the Porsche buckets weigh (and you can buy a set for ~$1,500). Part of why I didn't like the Elise was it just wasn't a car I wanted to drive *all the time*, I did the lowest miles on it than any car I have ever owned and decided never to buy a car I didn't feel like driving every day ever again.
A tank of gas weighs about 85lb. Seats+AC+Radio weigh 58lb, you do the math. If you believe you can feel a difference of maybe 2% in the cars weight, good for you. I think driver weight, training, gas quality, tire condition and alignment are likely to have more effect on performance....
I agree, I don't really need AC in the pacific NW, but it's rainy here a lot and it's really useful for demisting the windows. Before getting the Spyder I looked at a lot of 997 GTS Cabs - a surprising number of which were ordered without heated seats (A $500 option in a $120,000+ car!) - many of those cars sit in dealerships for many months before being sold at auction. I understand people in Las Vegas or Florida maybe not needing heated seats, but really some options can make it much, much harder to sell your car later...
No, I have a Spyder with heated seats, which was more important to me in a convertible. I took offense to the attitude that anything other than buckets was somehow inferior - I agree, they are a bargain when they come as a zero cost option, but not everyone wants them. I owned an Elise for a couple of years, those seats weight less than half what the Porsche buckets weigh (and you can buy a set for ~$1,500). Part of why I didn't like the Elise was it just wasn't a car I wanted to drive *all the time*, I did the lowest miles on it than any car I have ever owned and decided never to buy a car I didn't feel like driving every day ever again.
A tank of gas weighs about 85lb. Seats+AC+Radio weigh 58lb, you do the math. If you believe you can feel a difference of maybe 2% in the cars weight, good for you. I think driver weight, training, gas quality, tire condition and alignment are likely to have more effect on performance....
I agree, I don't really need AC in the pacific NW, but it's rainy here a lot and it's really useful for demisting the windows. Before getting the Spyder I looked at a lot of 997 GTS Cabs - a surprising number of which were ordered without heated seats (A $500 option in a $120,000+ car!) - many of those cars sit in dealerships for many months before being sold at auction. I understand people in Las Vegas or Florida maybe not needing heated seats, but really some options can make it much, much harder to sell your car later...
11-07-2012, 01:48 AM
#102
Nordschleife Master
No, I have a Spyder with heated seats, which was more important to me in a convertible. I took offense to the attitude that anything other than buckets was somehow inferior - I agree, they are a bargain when they come as a zero cost option, but not everyone wants them. I owned an Elise for a couple of years, those seats weight less than half what the Porsche buckets weigh (and you can buy a set for ~$1,500). Part of why I didn't like the Elise was it just wasn't a car I wanted to drive *all the time*, I did the lowest miles on it than any car I have ever owned and decided never to buy a car I didn't feel like driving every day ever again.
I agree, I don't really need AC in the pacific NW, but it's rainy here a lot and it's really useful for demisting the windows. Before getting the Spyder I looked at a lot of 997 GTS Cabs - a surprising number of which were ordered without heated seats (A $500 option in a $120,000+ car!) - many of those cars sit in dealerships for many months before being sold at auction. I understand people in Las Vegas or Florida maybe not needing heated seats, but really some options can make it much, much harder to sell your car later...
I agree, I don't really need AC in the pacific NW, but it's rainy here a lot and it's really useful for demisting the windows. Before getting the Spyder I looked at a lot of 997 GTS Cabs - a surprising number of which were ordered without heated seats (A $500 option in a $120,000+ car!) - many of those cars sit in dealerships for many months before being sold at auction. I understand people in Las Vegas or Florida maybe not needing heated seats, but really some options can make it much, much harder to sell your car later...
I personally don't think the spyder is a great everyday car, particularly in the pacific northwest. It's not because of the seats, though. It's because of the manual top. You can't opt out of the manual top. 997 Cab and spyder are totally different cars.
11-07-2012, 02:07 AM
#103
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No, I'm just saying I don't think there is anything wrong with having or not having sports buckets, or that everyone should want them. I don't believe they detract from the essence of what makes a Spyder a Spyder. The weight savings, zero cost option and cool looks are great, but seriously, it's saving the equivalent of about 4 gallons of gas in the tank.
That's why I think it's funny when people say some options are 'Highly Prized' or 'there are no bad options on a Spyder, just bad seats'. I disagree.
That's why I think it's funny when people say some options are 'Highly Prized' or 'there are no bad options on a Spyder, just bad seats'. I disagree.
11-07-2012, 02:20 AM
#104
Rennlist Member
The spyder in the PNW would be a killer coz of the top as you need a second passenger each and every time.
For 9 months a year you never know when it would rain. It's always overcast. Having a helping hand I'm sure would cut the time to spread the
top over the interior in half.
Even as a resident of the greater Seattle area, I am still attracted by the design of the spyder's top and there is no guarantee that the 981 spyder may have the same design for a roof. A/C is a creature comfort and the presence of that option would probably not be a deal breaker for any potential spyder.
For 9 months a year you never know when it would rain. It's always overcast. Having a helping hand I'm sure would cut the time to spread the
top over the interior in half.
Even as a resident of the greater Seattle area, I am still attracted by the design of the spyder's top and there is no guarantee that the 981 spyder may have the same design for a roof. A/C is a creature comfort and the presence of that option would probably not be a deal breaker for any potential spyder.
11-07-2012, 02:52 AM
#105
Do I personally prefer sport buckets and feel that they correspond with Spyders' essence? Yes. Is it a damn good buy as no-cost option? Yes. Do I think that everyone else needs to have sport buckets or otherwise they're inferior?? No. It is of personal preference, IMO.
We can debate about the weight savings of a "stripped out" Spyder all day long... but I was including no AC, no radio, bucket seats, no bi-xenons, lithium-ion battery, etc., etc. Are these frequently specified options? No. But I was rebutting your statements.