Tons of 911’s for sale!
07-25-2023, 11:37 PM
#211
I’ve been watching the market for some time now looking for the right car and taking the advice to heart about waiting out the high prices. I’ve been on/off looking for a year and do see the inventory piling up a bit but I’m not seeing the prices come down to pre-COVID levels. Forum members have been predicting this collapse for as long as I’ve been looking. In the end I’ve landed on waiting it out and I think many others have as well based on inventory levels.
What I’m curious about is how the used sellers can let these cars take up inventory for such long stretches of time.
What I’m curious about is how the used sellers can let these cars take up inventory for such long stretches of time.
07-26-2023, 12:11 AM
#212
Intermediate
I’ve been watching the 911 market as a whole, but a the top end 14 months ago a GT3 would go up and down in a few days priced at 399. Now I see tons sitting at mid 300. I don’t see this level of decline on the lower models for obvious reasons (more demand, etc.) but smaller increments downwards in terms of list pricing. No idea what they sell for though.
Hard to say where prices will go, but every time I really dig into a car I find that I like I just find it so hard to believe that 5 year old cars will continue to sell for MSRP for the foreseeable future (991.2) or that middle-of-the-road 997.2s are still 100 thousand dollar vehicles competing with new M2s.
Maybe pre-COVID 911 owners have unrealistic expectations since they all got cars for what would now be considered very reasonable prices, but they have helped me clearly see something is a miss in this market and it cannot be sustainable.
Hard to say where prices will go, but every time I really dig into a car I find that I like I just find it so hard to believe that 5 year old cars will continue to sell for MSRP for the foreseeable future (991.2) or that middle-of-the-road 997.2s are still 100 thousand dollar vehicles competing with new M2s.
Maybe pre-COVID 911 owners have unrealistic expectations since they all got cars for what would now be considered very reasonable prices, but they have helped me clearly see something is a miss in this market and it cannot be sustainable.
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GTA_991 (07-26-2023)
07-26-2023, 10:57 AM
#213
Prices are higher for 2 main reasons right now in Canada:
1. USDCAD rates: US MSRP is only 14% lower in constant dollars than Canadian MSRP so the exchange rate being at 1.32 makes it interesting to absorb those cars even with a markup , lux tax and an import tax (2-3% I believe). For example a Base 911 is $130700 CAD (around $99k USD) avs a us US MSRP of $114400 USD. Savings are more significant with the higher priced cars obviously. So I think the real bottom for car values will depend on US market and USDCAD rates.
2. Lux tax on newer cars make the used market more appealing and shoppers are taking into account when comparing prices used vs new.
On another note there's a 992 RS asking $535k USD on Autotrader right now. Bonkers...
1. USDCAD rates: US MSRP is only 14% lower in constant dollars than Canadian MSRP so the exchange rate being at 1.32 makes it interesting to absorb those cars even with a markup , lux tax and an import tax (2-3% I believe). For example a Base 911 is $130700 CAD (around $99k USD) avs a us US MSRP of $114400 USD. Savings are more significant with the higher priced cars obviously. So I think the real bottom for car values will depend on US market and USDCAD rates.
2. Lux tax on newer cars make the used market more appealing and shoppers are taking into account when comparing prices used vs new.
On another note there's a 992 RS asking $535k USD on Autotrader right now. Bonkers...
07-26-2023, 01:23 PM
#214
I’ve been watching the 911 market as a whole, but a the top end 14 months ago a GT3 would go up and down in a few days priced at 399. Now I see tons sitting at mid 300. I don’t see this level of decline on the lower models for obvious reasons (more demand, etc.) but smaller increments downwards in terms of list pricing. No idea what they sell for though.
Hard to say where prices will go, but every time I really dig into a car I find that I like I just find it so hard to believe that 5 year old cars will continue to sell for MSRP for the foreseeable future (991.2) or that middle-of-the-road 997.2s are still 100 thousand dollar vehicles competing with new M2s.
Maybe pre-COVID 911 owners have unrealistic expectations since they all got cars for what would now be considered very reasonable prices, but they have helped me clearly see something is a miss in this market and it cannot be sustainable.
Hard to say where prices will go, but every time I really dig into a car I find that I like I just find it so hard to believe that 5 year old cars will continue to sell for MSRP for the foreseeable future (991.2) or that middle-of-the-road 997.2s are still 100 thousand dollar vehicles competing with new M2s.
Maybe pre-COVID 911 owners have unrealistic expectations since they all got cars for what would now be considered very reasonable prices, but they have helped me clearly see something is a miss in this market and it cannot be sustainable.
Prices are higher for 2 main reasons right now in Canada:
1. USDCAD rates: US MSRP is only 14% lower in constant dollars than Canadian MSRP so the exchange rate being at 1.32 makes it interesting to absorb those cars even with a markup , lux tax and an import tax (2-3% I believe). For example a Base 911 is $130700 CAD (around $99k USD) avs a us US MSRP of $114400 USD. Savings are more significant with the higher priced cars obviously. So I think the real bottom for car values will depend on US market and USDCAD rates.
2. Lux tax on newer cars make the used market more appealing and shoppers are taking into account when comparing prices used vs new.
On another note there's a 992 RS asking $535k USD on Autotrader right now. Bonkers...
1. USDCAD rates: US MSRP is only 14% lower in constant dollars than Canadian MSRP so the exchange rate being at 1.32 makes it interesting to absorb those cars even with a markup , lux tax and an import tax (2-3% I believe). For example a Base 911 is $130700 CAD (around $99k USD) avs a us US MSRP of $114400 USD. Savings are more significant with the higher priced cars obviously. So I think the real bottom for car values will depend on US market and USDCAD rates.
2. Lux tax on newer cars make the used market more appealing and shoppers are taking into account when comparing prices used vs new.
On another note there's a 992 RS asking $535k USD on Autotrader right now. Bonkers...
I also saw that 992 this morning, that's insane.
07-26-2023, 02:01 PM
#215
Drifting
How much have you noticed it coming down in the past ~6-8 months if at all? Have you been watching the RS specifically or do you mean the 911 market as a whole? I do have a hard time believing we'll see pre-COVID levels on anything any more just because typically during inflationary periods you don't usually see a full reversal back, referring mainly to real estate of course. I'd be happy with close to pre-COVID or a little over MSRP although even that seems like a bit too much to ask for.
Remains to be seen how many people get pushed out of this part of the market due to interest rates but right now things are holding stronger than I would have expected. There will also be some material number of people upgrading from the .2 RS to the 992 RS so we'll see what that does to inventory + pricing... but given the 992 is such a large leap price-wise over the 991 I don't see used .2's ever selling at or near MSRP.
07-26-2023, 02:28 PM
#216
It is hard to imagine this being sustainable, I think it's just a matter of how long it can continue.
It's weird because you actually get a better deal buying a Canadian car right now if you're looking at specifically 991.2 3RS. The US used prices for the 3RS are quite a bit higher than ours after just conversion let alone duties. Seems like we've already dropped below them for this specific model. PCO just listed one today it looks like. 279k, appears to have been tracked.
I also saw that 992 this morning, that's insane.
It's weird because you actually get a better deal buying a Canadian car right now if you're looking at specifically 991.2 3RS. The US used prices for the 3RS are quite a bit higher than ours after just conversion let alone duties. Seems like we've already dropped below them for this specific model. PCO just listed one today it looks like. 279k, appears to have been tracked.
I also saw that 992 this morning, that's insane.
07-26-2023, 11:27 PM
#217
I watch the RS market pretty closely (at least once per week, gives me something to do) and overall things are a bit down on the .2's but the .1's have remained relatively consistent over the past 6+ months ($225-250k). Bunch of .2 RS listed around $300k now and previously these were $315-325k min. I seriously doubt however that things will ever get back to pre-COVID levels (ie. MSRP) as the market has changed significantly with the introduction of the luxury tax. I consider myself lucky having scored a CPO .1 RS for well under MSRP about 6 months before the pandemic hit... at the time there were also essentially brand new .2 GT3s available for around $200k and it seems like that is gone forever too.
Remains to be seen how many people get pushed out of this part of the market due to interest rates but right now things are holding stronger than I would have expected. There will also be some material number of people upgrading from the .2 RS to the 992 RS so we'll see what that does to inventory + pricing... but given the 992 is such a large leap price-wise over the 991 I don't see used .2's ever selling at or near MSRP.
Remains to be seen how many people get pushed out of this part of the market due to interest rates but right now things are holding stronger than I would have expected. There will also be some material number of people upgrading from the .2 RS to the 992 RS so we'll see what that does to inventory + pricing... but given the 992 is such a large leap price-wise over the 991 I don't see used .2's ever selling at or near MSRP.
07-27-2023, 12:40 AM
#218
Rennlist Member
Feels like a "who's pockets are deeper" game at this point...
07-27-2023, 01:58 AM
#219
Rennlist Member
First time, since I’ve been watching, to see 992 GT3’s listed in the high 2’s. They just didn’t move in that $350-375 range, once a few are listed in the 2’s I bet more will follow.
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UncleDude (07-28-2023)
07-27-2023, 10:44 AM
#221
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I drove by PCO yesterday on the way back from the Dentist and couldn't believe how many 911's were sitting on the lot for sale. Frankly, I've never seen so many...not even before the pandemic. With interest rates where they are, I don't think any dealer can afford inventory levels like that for long.
07-29-2023, 11:12 AM
#222
From model year 2020 and up (992) there are more 911's (276) listed for sale than Macan's (149) and Cayenne's (226). Seems a little backwards IMO. Simply put cost of living has caught up, people are vacationing again and prioritizing other things. The sports car market as a whole will be correcting for another 6-12 months.
July 29th - 290 992's - The numbers keep on rising.
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997turbocab (07-31-2023),
Bud Fox (09-26-2023)
07-29-2023, 01:36 PM
#224
Rennlist Member
I'm curious where is that number coming from? I count 173 992s for sale at Porsche.ca when you count the individual cars...31 of them GT3s. Pre-Owned also includes Porsche Approved Certified Pre-owned. Of course, that doesn't include cars for sale at dealers other than Porsche stores, nor private cars for sale (like mine).
Last edited by gcurnew; 07-29-2023 at 01:39 PM.