Tons of 911’s for sale!
10-19-2023, 12:11 PM
#271
Drifting
If people are willing to pay those prices there is nothing to justify. Don't forget that the supply of new cars in Canada is limited, prices have increased substantially, and the luxury tax has a major impact. $117k may seem like a lot relative to a $122k MSRP but a current 911 Carrera base with zero options is $144k on the Porsche Canada configurator (including destination, fees, and luxury tax).
Compared to a new car that $117k (likely less after negotiation) with immediate availability looks pretty good IMO.
Compared to a new car that $117k (likely less after negotiation) with immediate availability looks pretty good IMO.
10-19-2023, 01:20 PM
#272
Rennlist Member
If people are willing to pay those prices there is nothing to justify. Don't forget that the supply of new cars in Canada is limited, prices have increased substantially, and the luxury tax has a major impact. $117k may seem like a lot relative to a $122k MSRP but a current 911 Carrera base with zero options is $144k on the Porsche Canada configurator (including destination, fees, and luxury tax).
Compared to a new car that $117k (likely less after negotiation) with immediate availability looks pretty good IMO.
Compared to a new car that $117k (likely less after negotiation) with immediate availability looks pretty good IMO.
Definitely. Inflation doesn't just affect the price of new goods...all ships rise with the tide.
10-19-2023, 01:28 PM
#273
Rennlist Member
If people are willing to pay those prices there is nothing to justify. Don't forget that the supply of new cars in Canada is limited, prices have increased substantially, and the luxury tax has a major impact. $117k may seem like a lot relative to a $122k MSRP but a current 911 Carrera base with zero options is $144k on the Porsche Canada configurator (including destination, fees, and luxury tax).
Compared to a new car that $117k (likely less after negotiation) with immediate availability looks pretty good IMO.
Compared to a new car that $117k (likely less after negotiation) with immediate availability looks pretty good IMO.
A new 911 is basically a $200k car in most instances.
10-19-2023, 01:51 PM
#274
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
If I thought that these depreciation levels were the new norm, then I would. However, I just don't see how the post-pandemic supply chain supports that. Now, if a car company makes a sales decision to cut supply to Canada, that is a different situation. I've heard lots of stories recently about buyers backing out of cars due to the recent price increases and the luxury tax - I got my Corvette deposits back for that reason. Look at the autotrader and see how many new 992's are for sale at dealers compared to during the pandemic. Just my personal opinion, but I don't think these low depreciation rates are sustainable with growing availability. Of course, I could be wrong.
10-19-2023, 02:00 PM
#275
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I don't disagree with you. However, I think that factors like low interest rates, fomo and pandemic-related wealth drove car prices up more than inflation. If those 3 things normalize, demand has to fall resulting in pricing or supply changes.
10-19-2023, 02:07 PM
#276
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
@Storonto - Yes I agree, the discounts will not be meaningful and very small... Not talking 20K off a new 911 here. With the constant increases to MSRP and LUX tax they will / have hit a ceiling where customers will curtail the purchase. Just my opinion, I personally believe the amount of new 911's dealers are going to sell in 2024 will be far less than what they sold in 2022 for example. Let's see how many 992 911's remain for sale in Canada by the end of the summer. I predict we will have more than there is currently. Time will tell.
As of today there are 278 992's for sale... I will update this in September and see if we are higher... supply and demand
As of today there are 278 992's for sale... I will update this in September and see if we are higher... supply and demand
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M718R (10-19-2023)
10-19-2023, 02:13 PM
#277
Drifting
I've heard (off the record) that is exactly what Porsche has done in Canada and it makes sense given it is (or was forever) their least profitable market globally. They make more per vehicle in the US + China etc than here so it is good business to direct the limited global supply to more profitable markets.
10-19-2023, 02:22 PM
#278
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I've heard (off the record) that is exactly what Porsche has done in Canada and it makes sense given it is (or was forever) their least profitable market globally. They make more per vehicle in the US + China etc than here so it is good business to direct the limited global supply to more profitable markets.
10-19-2023, 03:31 PM
#279
I just want 991.2 GT3RS prices to come down!
Waiting to see more of those on the market, should be people trading in on 992 3RS. But I'm surprised how little there are on the market, though we should see 3RS deliveries increasing into next year.
That being said, 992 3RS is a super expensive car compared to the previous if you start optioning it up. Price increase, lux tax.
Waiting to see more of those on the market, should be people trading in on 992 3RS. But I'm surprised how little there are on the market, though we should see 3RS deliveries increasing into next year.
That being said, 992 3RS is a super expensive car compared to the previous if you start optioning it up. Price increase, lux tax.
10-19-2023, 04:44 PM
#280
Rennlist Member
Maybe some of Porsche owners are dreamers and are living on the edge financially. You know people. They all think they deserve it and live with massive debt. Maybe the mortgage is more important.
As for the luxury tax, that is really part of the sale price even if you buy used (I am assuming the luxury tax is only on new cars), because if the seller wants another luxury car, he has to pay the luxury tax as well on it. Its not a loss as HST is.
Why wouldn't I add the luxury tax to my 2015 GTS? I know I will pay it if I replace it with a new one.
As for the luxury tax, that is really part of the sale price even if you buy used (I am assuming the luxury tax is only on new cars), because if the seller wants another luxury car, he has to pay the luxury tax as well on it. Its not a loss as HST is.
Why wouldn't I add the luxury tax to my 2015 GTS? I know I will pay it if I replace it with a new one.
10-19-2023, 05:28 PM
#281
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Maybe some of Porsche owners are dreamers and are living on the edge financially. You know people. They all think they deserve it and live with massive debt. Maybe the mortgage is more important.
As for the luxury tax, that is really part of the sale price even if you buy used (I am assuming the luxury tax is only on new cars), because if the seller wants another luxury car, he has to pay the luxury tax as well on it. Its not a loss as HST is.
Why wouldn't I add the luxury tax to my 2015 GTS? I know I will pay it if I replace it with a new one.
As for the luxury tax, that is really part of the sale price even if you buy used (I am assuming the luxury tax is only on new cars), because if the seller wants another luxury car, he has to pay the luxury tax as well on it. Its not a loss as HST is.
Why wouldn't I add the luxury tax to my 2015 GTS? I know I will pay it if I replace it with a new one.
Last edited by Onami; 10-19-2023 at 05:30 PM.
10-19-2023, 05:34 PM
#282
Rennlist Member
I just want 991.2 GT3RS prices to come down!
Waiting to see more of those on the market, should be people trading in on 992 3RS. But I'm surprised how little there are on the market, though we should see 3RS deliveries increasing into next year.
That being said, 992 3RS is a super expensive car compared to the previous if you start optioning it up. Price increase, lux tax.
Waiting to see more of those on the market, should be people trading in on 992 3RS. But I'm surprised how little there are on the market, though we should see 3RS deliveries increasing into next year.
That being said, 992 3RS is a super expensive car compared to the previous if you start optioning it up. Price increase, lux tax.
10-19-2023, 05:35 PM
#283
Rennlist Member
But isn't it strange. Seller always think their cars are worth unobtainium, but when they are buyers, cars are worth nothing.
10-19-2023, 05:57 PM
#284
Drifting
2024 will be an interesting year..
10-19-2023, 08:19 PM
#285
My 992RS ( I had ordered it a long time ago so no lux tax) was almost twice the price of my 997.1RS. If I had the lux tax also it would have been more than twice the price. However, I do think prices will come down...there is a lot of personal debt out there and also mortgage renewal to deal with. I would be surprised if we do not see some retrenchment. Prices are silly now and I would not for a moment pay a premium for one.
I'm having a hard time swallowing the lux tax pill on high priced cars, like 3RS. I spec one but then that puts me off. Don't want to support it. Ordering a Cayenne and even the $3600 there irritates me.
We need a pullback on numerous fronts. Sooner the better.