Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
Yup Im a Bridgestone fanboi', keeps things simple. Quick summary of 16 years and 270,000km of tyres:
Had Re010 on the car in stock 16" when I got it with 40,000km on the clock. Hard as nails so great for sliding everywhere.
Then went to P-spec S02's great tire with heaps of grip but $$$ and scary in the wet when worn. Ran two sets of these before going to Goodyear GSD3 on a whim. Much quieter and better in the wet but a spongy tire in comparison. Went through 3 sets of these I think?
Then got the 18" Enkeis (same time as I went Bilstein Motorsport coilovers) with Goodyear Eagle asymmetrics 235/265 width. Very pointy with heaps of grip but glassy at the limit, grip fell away sharply.
Then onto Bridgestone RE001 then RE002 now RE003. Re003 are a step up on the 02. Not much difference 001/002. Good life, >30,000km on 001/002, expect the same on the 003.
003 has more grip than is fun for me - think I'll put a narrow set on the old 16" wheels 205/225 and go play...
Cheers,
Mike
Had Re010 on the car in stock 16" when I got it with 40,000km on the clock. Hard as nails so great for sliding everywhere.
Then went to P-spec S02's great tire with heaps of grip but $$$ and scary in the wet when worn. Ran two sets of these before going to Goodyear GSD3 on a whim. Much quieter and better in the wet but a spongy tire in comparison. Went through 3 sets of these I think?
Then got the 18" Enkeis (same time as I went Bilstein Motorsport coilovers) with Goodyear Eagle asymmetrics 235/265 width. Very pointy with heaps of grip but glassy at the limit, grip fell away sharply.
Then onto Bridgestone RE001 then RE002 now RE003. Re003 are a step up on the 02. Not much difference 001/002. Good life, >30,000km on 001/002, expect the same on the 003.
003 has more grip than is fun for me - think I'll put a narrow set on the old 16" wheels 205/225 and go play...
Cheers,
Mike
Yup Im a Bridgestone fanboi', keeps things simple. Quick summary of 16 years and 270,000km of tyres: Had Re010 on the car in stock 16" when I got it with 40,000km on the clock. Hard as nails so great for sliding everywhere. Then went to P-spec S02's great tire with heaps of grip but $$$ and scary in the wet when worn. Ran two sets of these before going to Goodyear GSD3 on a whim. Much quieter and better in the wet but a spongy tire in comparison. Went through 3 sets of these I think? Then got the 18" Enkeis (same time as I went Bilstein Motorsport coilovers) with Goodyear Eagle asymmetrics 235/265 width. Very pointy with heaps of grip but glassy at the limit, grip fell away sharply. Then onto Bridgestone RE001 then RE002 now RE003. Re003 are a step up on the 02. Not much difference 001/002. Good life, >30,000km on 001/002, expect the same on the 003. 003 has more grip than is fun for me - think I'll put a narrow set on the old 16" wheels 205/225 and go play... Cheers, Mike
Originally Posted by Macca
dang!! It took me a while to find your thread. I did read your thread titled "in praise of the Carrera C4" for a while till I realised I was definitely on the wrong path!!
Bugger John, not sure what to say. I don't think limiting the car to road use is the answer as I'm sure a spirited drive Northland style even on road tyres will elicit the same result.
My only totally unlearned advice would be to re install the old clutch pack and shims to precisely as they were before the re build. This may reduce the preload on 3rd gear and alleviate the binding? I'm really out of my depth with only limited experience to draw from but having installed the LSD clutch packs twice on my C2 I know how critical shimming those can be and I believe they can have a detrimental affect on shift quality. I still have a notchy shift 2 to 3 under heavy load (exiting B51 when pushing in by way of example) and I think this may be to do with having an LSD.
I really hope they can get this sorted for you mate. As much as I love your idea of a lotus (will look like big bird from Sesame street in an Elise lol!) I can't imagine you without a Porsche during an RSG day. I'm sure the boys will get it sorted and perhaps it's a blessing you don't have the time to spend in the track in 016. Keep your chin up mate. Maybe drop Steve Wiener or Colin B an email, they are engineers with 100s of real world g50/64 rebuilds under their belt....
Bugger John, not sure what to say. I don't think limiting the car to road use is the answer as I'm sure a spirited drive Northland style even on road tyres will elicit the same result.
My only totally unlearned advice would be to re install the old clutch pack and shims to precisely as they were before the re build. This may reduce the preload on 3rd gear and alleviate the binding? I'm really out of my depth with only limited experience to draw from but having installed the LSD clutch packs twice on my C2 I know how critical shimming those can be and I believe they can have a detrimental affect on shift quality. I still have a notchy shift 2 to 3 under heavy load (exiting B51 when pushing in by way of example) and I think this may be to do with having an LSD.
I really hope they can get this sorted for you mate. As much as I love your idea of a lotus (will look like big bird from Sesame street in an Elise lol!) I can't imagine you without a Porsche during an RSG day. I'm sure the boys will get it sorted and perhaps it's a blessing you don't have the time to spend in the track in 016. Keep your chin up mate. Maybe drop Steve Wiener or Colin B an email, they are engineers with 100s of real world g50/64 rebuilds under their belt....
As for C4 reliability, in any machine complexity is less reliable, everything else being equal. I have no concerns on fast road trips but am too far into the track driving to bother with limiting myself to roadies. Off to trademe to see what I can find to strip out for the track. Maybe an ex racing mini? I fit in those.
I'm happy leaving it to Dan and Steve. They haven't given up as far as I know. It's just a machine. As for C4 reliability, in any machine complexity is less reliable, everything else being equal. I have no concerns on fast road trips but am too far into the track driving to bother with limiting myself to roadies. Off to trademe to see what I can find to strip out for the track. Maybe an ex racing mini? I fit in those.
John in a racing mini, now that would be a fun mobile road cone on an RSG day ;-p. I think the Lotus has merit but try one for size first. Agree with Dave the Toyota powered models the best choice. I think on z221 you'd find them a bit quicker than the C4 and the consumerable should be negligible. Tony B has had same tyres, pads and rotors on his exige now for two years, went out with him at Taupo in it and pulled 46s on old tyres 2 up. 240 bhp and he's about to have the computer done for another 40 BHP. Has more torque than a 911 being a blown motor and weighs around 1000kg. Doesn't sound great but the 300lbft plus in that platform really makes itself know pulling out of corners. Torque rules exiting corners in the in field. I couldn't keep him on the infield but made ground on the straights in the 993, but I was driving the wheels of it and I'm sure he was just aping as he would normally...
Jon Pottinger told me the same story when I bought Mr Black. Although I respect his knowledge on things Porsche, the theory that C4 boxes don't handle the track on sticky tyres doesn't seem to be backed up by international experience or design. Very many guys in US and Europe seem to track their C4s very hard on sticky tyres with no majors. Maybe he was referring to the planetary gear set failure we've seen first hand. I could be wrong, but many on this forum were surprised by our gearbox issues John and suggested it was because we are upside down here?
I agree leaving it with Steve/Dan, more to poll Colin & Steve W for information incase they have come across the issues before and can shed some light on where Dan should be looking. I've done this before at various times through my builds and can email you there details if you like. Over the years have had to research all my project prior throwing the parts at CCS to construct. John in a racing mini, now that would be a fun mobile road cone on an RSG day ;-p. I think the Lotus has merit but try one for size first. Agree with Dave the Toyota powered models the best choice. I think on z221 you'd find them a bit quicker than the C4 and the consumerable should be negligible. Tony B has had same tyres, pads and rotors on his exige now for two years, went out with him at Taupo in it and pulled 46s on old tyres 2 up. 240 bhp and he's about to have the computer done for another 40 BHP. Has more torque than a 911 being a blown motor and weighs around 1000kg. Doesn't sound great but the 300lbft plus in that platform really makes itself know pulling out of corners. Torque rules exiting corners in the in field. I couldn't keep him on the infield but made ground on the straights in the 993, but I was driving the wheels of it and I'm sure he was just aping as he would normally...
Jon Pottinger told me the same story when I bought Mr Black. Although I respect his knowledge on things Porsche, the theory that C4 boxes don't handle the track on sticky tyres doesn't seem to be backed up by international experience or design. Very many guys in US and Europe seem to track their C4s very hard on sticky tyres with no majors. Maybe he was referring to the planetary gear set failure we've seen first hand. I could be wrong, but many on this forum were surprised by our gearbox issues John and suggested it was because we are upside down here?
Partly, my thoughts are driven by my experience and costs with this rebuild. I have blown Macca's bill out of the water and I'm still without a working box. I simply don't want to risk it again having been in this position, when a mechanic I respect warns me. It's tempting fate for what is a small part of the cars intended use.
I still remember the planetary gear set warning and you were correct. Others to this day prefer to dismiss the possibility rather than check their gears. That said, I've yet to hear an explanation as to why they break. Partly, my thoughts are driven by my experience and costs with this rebuild. I have blown Macca's bill out of the water and I'm still without a working box. I simply don't want to risk it again having been in this position, when a mechanic I respect warns me. It's tempting fate for what is a small part of the cars intended use.
In all seriousness how can a battle hardened 964 C4 become a brittle faberge egg all in the blink of an eye? Like Jason I find it hard to believe with all those c4 running around out there in the wild on the tracks of the world that there isn't a reasonable solution and fix here that will make it bullet proof for another 150,000 km of abuse? Stay positive. As you say it's only a machine held together by physics an mathematical formulae. I'm sure they will solve the equation without further depletion of your shekels John....
Hey Pel. Thanks so much. The Pcar massive step up again. I can't believe how unbelievably generous guys have been. I'll PM you
NZ must be the only place in the world you can get such cheap 964 and 993 now. We should enjoy this while it lasts. Won't be many of these old timers on the track or Targa in a few years time - we may be the last group who freely run them as such before they eventually disappear to heated garages!
I'd say we are almost definitely the last group to run 964 and 993 like this. The modified Turbo 3.6s are being returned to original as values increase. I sense there's more interest in modded 964s to keep that trend going but with a whole lot of faster cars around the good condition 964 price point it would be a fanatics choice now to track one seriously over say a Cayman.
Herman will do the NITT but I won't be going hell for leather. I haven't ordered any more track tyres. Truth be told if the windscreen broke right now it would be a full respray and a life of moderate RSG days ahead...
Herman will do the NITT but I won't be going hell for leather. I haven't ordered any more track tyres. Truth be told if the windscreen broke right now it would be a full respray and a life of moderate RSG days ahead...
FWIW, I had never really looked into the 964 C4 AWD system but judging from http://www.adrianstreather.com/docs/...overviewR2.pdf, it looks to be more advanced and capable than the 996T/996C4's simple viscous system.
Apart from AWD launch driveline shock (not as much of a problem with viscous ones like the 996T as there is a delay for the rears to light up before significant torque goes forwards) I don't really see how track work would stress a C4's tranny that much more than a C2's (poor heel and toe and money shifts aside of course, where the AWD traction may not let the shock partially dissipate through just slipping the rears)?
It may take a while for John to regain confidence in the tranny but I personally wouldn't bet against some selected Herman track appearances after that.
Last edited by 996tnz; 02-16-2016 at 06:41 PM.
Crown range run in Winter ? Bring your C4s if you have them
For the record I am overly emotionally invested here. I spent 5 months on various items, often dropping into bed at 1am, that most wouldn't even bother about to address. Gearbox aside its a class effort if I say so myself and should last decades but it needs confidence in the box. My worry now is that if the 3rd gear alignment isn't perfect I could be graunching the gear in a short period even if it passes muster on the first test.
As Racoguy replied in the refresh thread, an open case is the way to go.
For the record I am overly emotionally invested here. I spent 5 months on various items, often dropping into bed at 1am, that most wouldn't even bother about to address. Gearbox aside its a class effort if I say so myself and should last decades but it needs confidence in the box. My worry now is that if the 3rd gear alignment isn't perfect I could be graunching the gear in a short period even if it passes muster on the first test.
As Racoguy replied in the refresh thread, an open case is the way to go.
Hope the South Island weather is looking better for the SITTers than it is for those of us stuck on this side of Cook Strait.
Just went and bought a set of TRW Integra road pads, in case Saturday's 2KCup race at Manfield turns out to be a wet one. Figure I'll be needing the TRWs for the following weekend's RallyCross anyway, so might as well have the choice down there.
Still undecided as to whether I try to pick up some snow tyres for that RallyCross though. About 2/3 of the course by distance is hard asphalt or concrete but 1/3 is grass/clay/mud. So lap timewise it's closer to a 50:50ish split. I'm thinking the snow tyres might cost me 10pc on the hard stuff, but normal Dunlops might be 20pc slower than them in the boggy stuff. But passing is probably easier on the hard (OK, maybe not in a 2KCup car up against tweaked Honda Cuppers etc). Only doing it for fun really but I wonder how much difference it would make...
Just went and bought a set of TRW Integra road pads, in case Saturday's 2KCup race at Manfield turns out to be a wet one. Figure I'll be needing the TRWs for the following weekend's RallyCross anyway, so might as well have the choice down there.
Still undecided as to whether I try to pick up some snow tyres for that RallyCross though. About 2/3 of the course by distance is hard asphalt or concrete but 1/3 is grass/clay/mud. So lap timewise it's closer to a 50:50ish split. I'm thinking the snow tyres might cost me 10pc on the hard stuff, but normal Dunlops might be 20pc slower than them in the boggy stuff. But passing is probably easier on the hard (OK, maybe not in a 2KCup car up against tweaked Honda Cuppers etc). Only doing it for fun really but I wonder how much difference it would make...
My Audi is down just now too (newly fitted air suspension unit exploded in driveway), so if anyone has a map of forestry roads for getting from Drury to Mount Maunganui and back in the Grinch just send it my way thanks...
Update on the box (to keep a balanced view). Dan has dismantled a spare C4 box and is measuring each part of Herman's box as its reassembled to see where the issue is. None of the new parts showed any obvious spec issues. Time will no tell where the issue is.