The Aging Demographics Of Club Racing Today.....
#46
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I really like this topic. I often questioned why more young people aren’t racing. Here are a few of my observations. This is coming from an outsider looking in and someone who has been doing DE for 5+ years. I hope you don’t mind if I share – any feedback is good feedback. I think there is also a perception problem and openness to others. I do recall speaking to a Porsche owner about his car (997 GT3) and I mistakenly made the comment that I hope to get one someday – only to receive a response, “you’re too young.” That response tells me that even if you wanted to see younger folks in your races there would be some jealousy or envy in the “young crowd” because somehow we didn’t pay our dues. I would summarize this as close minded. It’s very apparent too when you have a discussion with older drivers and younger drivers. Assuming you got a PCA race license and wanted to run a race you’ll soon realize It’s a huge time commitment, especially if drivers are running their own cars.
#47
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#48
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Wow, some seriously negative comments between the two of you, sorry to see your experiences have been so bad. I met some of my closest friends at PCA DE's, many in their 30's at the time (I was 50), and have had a great time with the whole PCA journey to racing. Are there ***-0's in PCA? Yep, just like everywhere else in life. I will say if you came over to me and asked questions I love to talk about my car and driving so it would have been a different situation... unless of course I was getting ready for grid. As for your statement that "You get 90% of the racing experience in a DE or track day with 25% of the time investment." you clearly don't know.. their is little to no comparison other than both occur on a track. DE is/should be a fun social event, if it isn't find different PCA regions or groups to run with.
It depends on the group.... SCCA tends to be much more about the experience and fiendship. some of that I saw at the lat POC race at Willow.
my point here is when DE guys are exposed to actual racing, the drivers, the cars and what they do on the track, it rubs off. ive seen it work and i think it would be better for PCA, POC and SCCA to do more than they are doing with hunting for new racing members. sure, not all DE guys will ever take the plunge, but many that would never consider it, might , if they are exposed to it first hand. its the real reason i got into it... had there not have been race groups in NASA, i would have probably never known i could ever race a street car safely and have SO much competitive fun!
#49
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Okay, the first rule of racing is you don't talk about the cost of racing.
So, I signed up today to race my Spec Boxster on Labor Day at Road America in Elkhart Lake, WI.
I live in Florida. That's the first problem.
Fuel - 2,400 miles round trip @ 10 MPG hauling an open trailer @ $2.25 per gallon = $550
Hotels (10 nights @ $125) = $1,250
Meals & Drinks (10 days @ $50) = $500
Track tires - $1,000
Track fuel = 45 gallons @ $2.25 = $100
PCA Track Fees = $975
(Friday Test & Tune - $250, Sat-Sun Sprint Races - $575, Monday Enduro - $200)
So we're looking at $4,375 for a three-day race weekend (and this is the cheapest class of PCA racing).
And that's before you start figuring in set-up, coaching, brake pads and rotors, fluid changes, hookers, etc. And you hope NOTHING GOES WRONG... nothing breaks, no one hits you.
Hey, I LOVE club racing. How can a 30-year-old with a wife and infant afford such a thing...or even be away from work that long?
So, I signed up today to race my Spec Boxster on Labor Day at Road America in Elkhart Lake, WI.
I live in Florida. That's the first problem.
Fuel - 2,400 miles round trip @ 10 MPG hauling an open trailer @ $2.25 per gallon = $550
Hotels (10 nights @ $125) = $1,250
Meals & Drinks (10 days @ $50) = $500
Track tires - $1,000
Track fuel = 45 gallons @ $2.25 = $100
PCA Track Fees = $975
(Friday Test & Tune - $250, Sat-Sun Sprint Races - $575, Monday Enduro - $200)
So we're looking at $4,375 for a three-day race weekend (and this is the cheapest class of PCA racing).
And that's before you start figuring in set-up, coaching, brake pads and rotors, fluid changes, hookers, etc. And you hope NOTHING GOES WRONG... nothing breaks, no one hits you.
Hey, I LOVE club racing. How can a 30-year-old with a wife and infant afford such a thing...or even be away from work that long?
#50
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I raced NASA and Dodge Skip Barber for a few years. I know the racing culture and yes it is clearly a different culture from DE. Outside of the culture I still stand by my statement. And saying things like 'you clearly don't know' is condescending and further proves our point.
#51
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Okay, the first rule of racing is you don't talk about the cost of racing.
So, I signed up today to race my Spec Boxster on Labor Day at Road America in Elkhart Lake, WI.
I live in Florida. That's the first problem.
Fuel - 2,400 miles round trip @ 10 MPG hauling an open trailer @ $2.25 per gallon = $550
Hotels (10 nights @ $125) = $1,250
Meals & Drinks (10 days @ $50) = $500
Track tires - $1,000
Track fuel = 45 gallons @ $2.25 = $100
PCA Track Fees = $975
(Friday Test & Tune - $250, Sat-Sun Sprint Races - $575, Monday Enduro - $200)
So we're looking at $4,375 for a three-day race weekend (and this is the cheapest class of PCA racing).
And that's before you start figuring in set-up, coaching, brake pads and rotors, fluid changes, hookers, etc. And you hope NOTHING GOES WRONG... nothing breaks, no one hits you.
Hey, I LOVE club racing. How can a 30-year-old with a wife and infant afford such a thing...or even be away from work that long?
So, I signed up today to race my Spec Boxster on Labor Day at Road America in Elkhart Lake, WI.
I live in Florida. That's the first problem.
Fuel - 2,400 miles round trip @ 10 MPG hauling an open trailer @ $2.25 per gallon = $550
Hotels (10 nights @ $125) = $1,250
Meals & Drinks (10 days @ $50) = $500
Track tires - $1,000
Track fuel = 45 gallons @ $2.25 = $100
PCA Track Fees = $975
(Friday Test & Tune - $250, Sat-Sun Sprint Races - $575, Monday Enduro - $200)
So we're looking at $4,375 for a three-day race weekend (and this is the cheapest class of PCA racing).
And that's before you start figuring in set-up, coaching, brake pads and rotors, fluid changes, hookers, etc. And you hope NOTHING GOES WRONG... nothing breaks, no one hits you.
Hey, I LOVE club racing. How can a 30-year-old with a wife and infant afford such a thing...or even be away from work that long?
Last edited by nwGTS; 07-19-2016 at 08:07 PM.
#52
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entire weekend costs:
So, if you can stomach the cost of real estate in california, the bay area specifically.
Sears Point SCCA RACE weekend or Laguna Seca
fill up tahoe tow vehicle $50
gas for race car 40 gallons $120
stay at the track. $0
food (bring food ) $0
RACE entry $500
used tires $60 for mounting
$750 for a two race weekend and about $500 for a one race weekend.
oil change every 4 weekends $140
brake pads every 4 weekends $250
6 race weekends / season so add $65 per weekend for consumables.
this has been my costs for 20 years with little exceptions. when i go "all out" then add some lodging for my girlfriend and the kids.
and yes, as a 30 year old with the kids, it could be the reason i have kids and the girlfriend now.
"but heck, its only 2-3 days, 6 times a year honey!! " thats my story and im sticking too it.
even cheaper when i drive the car to the track!![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
So, if you can stomach the cost of real estate in california, the bay area specifically.
Sears Point SCCA RACE weekend or Laguna Seca
fill up tahoe tow vehicle $50
gas for race car 40 gallons $120
stay at the track. $0
food (bring food ) $0
RACE entry $500
used tires $60 for mounting
$750 for a two race weekend and about $500 for a one race weekend.
oil change every 4 weekends $140
brake pads every 4 weekends $250
6 race weekends / season so add $65 per weekend for consumables.
this has been my costs for 20 years with little exceptions. when i go "all out" then add some lodging for my girlfriend and the kids.
and yes, as a 30 year old with the kids, it could be the reason i have kids and the girlfriend now.
![EEK!](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif)
even cheaper when i drive the car to the track!
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Okay, the first rule of racing is you don't talk about the cost of racing.
So, I signed up today to race my Spec Boxster on Labor Day at Road America in Elkhart Lake, WI.
I live in Florida. That's the first problem.
Fuel - 2,400 miles round trip @ 10 MPG hauling an open trailer @ $2.25 per gallon = $550
Hotels (10 nights @ $125) = $1,250
Meals & Drinks (10 days @ $50) = $500
Track tires - $1,000
Track fuel = 45 gallons @ $2.25 = $100
PCA Track Fees = $975
(Friday Test & Tune - $250, Sat-Sun Sprint Races - $575, Monday Enduro - $200)
So we're looking at $4,375 for a three-day race weekend (and this is the cheapest class of PCA racing).
And that's before you start figuring in set-up, coaching, brake pads and rotors, fluid changes, hookers, etc. And you hope NOTHING GOES WRONG... nothing breaks, no one hits you.
Hey, I LOVE club racing. How can a 30-year-old with a wife and infant afford such a thing...or even be away from work that long?
So, I signed up today to race my Spec Boxster on Labor Day at Road America in Elkhart Lake, WI.
I live in Florida. That's the first problem.
Fuel - 2,400 miles round trip @ 10 MPG hauling an open trailer @ $2.25 per gallon = $550
Hotels (10 nights @ $125) = $1,250
Meals & Drinks (10 days @ $50) = $500
Track tires - $1,000
Track fuel = 45 gallons @ $2.25 = $100
PCA Track Fees = $975
(Friday Test & Tune - $250, Sat-Sun Sprint Races - $575, Monday Enduro - $200)
So we're looking at $4,375 for a three-day race weekend (and this is the cheapest class of PCA racing).
And that's before you start figuring in set-up, coaching, brake pads and rotors, fluid changes, hookers, etc. And you hope NOTHING GOES WRONG... nothing breaks, no one hits you.
Hey, I LOVE club racing. How can a 30-year-old with a wife and infant afford such a thing...or even be away from work that long?
#53
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So here's the thing. My local shade tree mechanic, who has a middling drag car that he races on the weekend (everyone here does), asks me, "How much will you win for the weekend?"
I tell him that I'm lucky to finish in the top 20 (because SPB is SO competitive), but, even if I won, I'd get (actually, I don't know what I'd get)...a medal?
He typically comes home with $500 for a Saturday night event. He looks at me and shakes his head.
I tell him that I'm lucky to finish in the top 20 (because SPB is SO competitive), but, even if I won, I'd get (actually, I don't know what I'd get)...a medal?
He typically comes home with $500 for a Saturday night event. He looks at me and shakes his head.
#54
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So here's the thing. My local shade tree mechanic, who has a middling drag car that he races on the weekend (everyone here does), asks me, "How much will you win for the weekend?"
I tell him that I'm lucky to finish in the top 20 (because SPB is SO competitive), but, even if I won, I'd get (actually, I don't know what I'd get)...a medal?
He typically comes home with $500 for a Saturday night event. He looks at me and shakes his head.
I tell him that I'm lucky to finish in the top 20 (because SPB is SO competitive), but, even if I won, I'd get (actually, I don't know what I'd get)...a medal?
He typically comes home with $500 for a Saturday night event. He looks at me and shakes his head.
He wins $500 for 10 seconds of racing... hmmmm two ways of looking at that one huh! you couldnt pay me $500 to tie up a weekend for 10 second
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#55
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So here's the thing. My local shade tree mechanic, who has a middling drag car that he races on the weekend (everyone here does), asks me, "How much will you win for the weekend?"
I tell him that I'm lucky to finish in the top 20 (because SPB is SO competitive), but, even if I won, I'd get (actually, I don't know what I'd get)...a medal?
He typically comes home with $500 for a Saturday night event. He looks at me and shakes his head.
I tell him that I'm lucky to finish in the top 20 (because SPB is SO competitive), but, even if I won, I'd get (actually, I don't know what I'd get)...a medal?
He typically comes home with $500 for a Saturday night event. He looks at me and shakes his head.
For those racing with NASA Hoosier, BF Goodrich, and Maxxis all offers nice contingency packages across most of their classes. Out here POC has a Yokohama contingency that's very generous. With slicks at $450 per and up it really helps to bring home a couple over a weekend....
#57
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In fact my favorite events are DE + Club race events. However I did see there was another thread about this very setup and race participants complaining about not having enough time on track. I love seeing the race cars in person, but again during a race weekend the seriousness has been turned up to a different level.
#58
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I raced NASA and Dodge Skip Barber for a few years. I know the racing culture and yes it is clearly a different culture from DE. Outside of the culture I still stand by my statement. And saying things like 'you clearly don't know' is condescending and further proves our point.
#59
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Well, I know what I spend on the 30+/- track days/year that I do; in conversations I've had over the years with racers "to get an idea" I've been told to multiply what I spend now by a factor of anywhere from 3 to 10.....and that ain't happenin'.
For those of you who CAN afford to do a decent racing schedule, more power to you!
I'll be content to do what I do, which right now is to spend the next couple hot and sunny days at WGI driving my brains out for hours (and they'll also be some racers here sharing the track, I'm sure), take it home, and do it again next week!![Stick Out Tongue](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Gary
For those of you who CAN afford to do a decent racing schedule, more power to you!
I'll be content to do what I do, which right now is to spend the next couple hot and sunny days at WGI driving my brains out for hours (and they'll also be some racers here sharing the track, I'm sure), take it home, and do it again next week!
![Stick Out Tongue](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Gary
#60
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I raced NASA and Dodge Skip Barber for a few years. I know the racing culture and yes it is clearly a different culture from DE. Outside of the culture I still stand by my statement. And saying things like 'you clearly don't know' is condescending and further proves our point.
---------
I am a new racer, and am relatively young... just turning 30, I am only racing because of mentors at the track... people is why I race. Now, I am competitive, built my own car... have a job that corresponds with hand-eye coordination but I had to stay engaged in my own progress to get where I'm at. I would say I am not your average DE participant, had some motivation to one day race, and I still would not be racing (this soon) if I didn't have people helping me get there.
I have found that the vast majority of Chief Instructors, Event Leads, etc. are not actively racing, many haven't ever done much more than DE. This isn't bad... but it is difficult to make the transition when there is a disconnect between racing and DE on the organizational level. (As stated NASA has limited DE groups to 'grow' thier racing)
I instruct to give back, and while I do not push people to TT or Racing, I do my best to at least de-mystify the process, and the expectations. There is a very real perception of 'inferiority' or 'I'll be a nuisance' with the DE crowd when they think of doing competition. It's not because the TT or Race crowd are mean... it's more the High School Seniors and the new freshman on campus... or whatever analogy you want to use.
Whatever you (as a racer/instructor) can do to encourage more participation is important, most of the DE crowd is just there for a good time, but some of us (me) are keeping our race intentions close and need a little help... because I'm just a freshman and you racers are so cool!