Frank 993 C4S

If you ever attended a PCA Club Race you'd see that this is absolutely not true.

mark kibort

+1

mark kibort

i dont know, sometimes folks take things a little too seriously. im on grid all the time with folks coming up from other classes or guys supporting cars in my race, and we talk so much til im almost late getting my stuff on! but heck, can turn the social thing on an off easier than many.
It depends on the group.... SCCA tends to be much more about the experience and fiendship. some of that I saw at the lat POC race at Willow.

my point here is when DE guys are exposed to actual racing, the drivers, the cars and what they do on the track, it rubs off. ive seen it work and i think it would be better for PCA, POC and SCCA to do more than they are doing with hunting for new racing members. sure, not all DE guys will ever take the plunge, but many that would never consider it, might , if they are exposed to it first hand. its the real reason i got into it... had there not have been race groups in NASA, i would have probably never known i could ever race a street car safely and have SO much competitive fun!

PLNewman

Okay, the first rule of racing is you don't talk about the cost of racing.

So, I signed up today to race my Spec Boxster on Labor Day at Road America in Elkhart Lake, WI.

I live in Florida. That's the first problem.

Fuel - 2,400 miles round trip @ 10 MPG hauling an open trailer @ $2.25 per gallon = $550

Hotels (10 nights @ $125) = $1,250

Meals & Drinks (10 days @ $50) = $500

Track tires - $1,000

Track fuel = 45 gallons @ $2.25 = $100

PCA Track Fees = $975
(Friday Test & Tune - $250, Sat-Sun Sprint Races - $575, Monday Enduro - $200)

So we're looking at $4,375 for a three-day race weekend (and this is the cheapest class of PCA racing).

And that's before you start figuring in set-up, coaching, brake pads and rotors, fluid changes, hookers, etc. And you hope NOTHING GOES WRONG... nothing breaks, no one hits you.

Hey, I LOVE club racing. How can a 30-year-old with a wife and infant afford such a thing...or even be away from work that long?

nwGTS

I raced NASA and Dodge Skip Barber for a few years. I know the racing culture and yes it is clearly a different culture from DE. Outside of the culture I still stand by my statement. And saying things like 'you clearly don't know' is condescending and further proves our point.

nwGTS

Yes it is expensive but that's relative. I should note that I avoided discussing the cost element because even if you can afford it the other factors I think stifle younger people entering racing more so than cost. If you like it, you'll find a way to afford to race (though maybe not in PCA club). However, those on the fence are turned off by my previous points. For the record, I can afford it and my job is flexible enough that I could arrange meetings and work around the race schedule (how lucky is that?!) but time and the fact that I didn't like the community are why I stuck my money elsewhere.. for now.

mark kibort

entire weekend costs:

So, if you can stomach the cost of real estate in california, the bay area specifically.

Sears Point SCCA RACE weekend or Laguna Seca

fill up tahoe tow vehicle $50
gas for race car 40 gallons $120
stay at the track. $0
food (bring food ) $0
RACE entry $500
used tires $60 for mounting

$750 for a two race weekend and about $500 for a one race weekend.

oil change every 4 weekends $140
brake pads every 4 weekends $250
6 race weekends / season so add $65 per weekend for consumables.

this has been my costs for 20 years with little exceptions. when i go "all out" then add some lodging for my girlfriend and the kids.
and yes, as a 30 year old with the kids, it could be the reason i have kids and the girlfriend now. "but heck, its only 2-3 days, 6 times a year honey!! " thats my story and im sticking too it.

even cheaper when i drive the car to the track!

PLNewman

So here's the thing. My local shade tree mechanic, who has a middling drag car that he races on the weekend (everyone here does), asks me, "How much will you win for the weekend?"

I tell him that I'm lucky to finish in the top 20 (because SPB is SO competitive), but, even if I won, I'd get (actually, I don't know what I'd get)...a medal?

He typically comes home with $500 for a Saturday night event. He looks at me and shakes his head.

mark kibort

And then you ask him how much a motor cost and how many seconds of racing he gets out of one. Then you can shake your head right back!
He wins $500 for 10 seconds of racing... hmmmm two ways of looking at that one huh! you couldnt pay me $500 to tie up a weekend for 10 second

jrgordonsenior

Hey there is a Toyo contingency tire at play in SPB/BSR and it's pretty healthy. It's also in play with NASA and POC our here in Lala land....

For those racing with NASA Hoosier, BF Goodrich, and Maxxis all offers nice contingency packages across most of their classes. Out here POC has a Yokohama contingency that's very generous. With slicks at $450 per and up it really helps to bring home a couple over a weekend....

PLNewman

You're kidding, right? If you finish on the podium (+19 starters)...you get ONE TIRE.

ML///

Hi Frank - I certainly do not wish to turn this into a club race bashing thread. To answer your question I have been to several PCA club races. If your car is your avatar picture, then I might have seen the car sitting under Body Motion's tents while at some NJMP races. I could very be wrong since the Martini livery is very popular among racers.

In fact my favorite events are DE + Club race events. However I did see there was another thread about this very setup and race participants complaining about not having enough time on track. I love seeing the race cars in person, but again during a race weekend the seriousness has been turned up to a different level.

Gary R.

You didn't say anything about racing and my comment was focused directly on your "90%" statement. I'm starting to understand now....

gbuff

Well, I know what I spend on the 30+/- track days/year that I do; in conversations I've had over the years with racers "to get an idea" I've been told to multiply what I spend now by a factor of anywhere from 3 to 10.....and that ain't happenin'.

For those of you who CAN afford to do a decent racing schedule, more power to you!

I'll be content to do what I do, which right now is to spend the next couple hot and sunny days at WGI driving my brains out for hours (and they'll also be some racers here sharing the track, I'm sure), take it home, and do it again next week!

Gary

Feuerbach

I didn't see that as condescending... I just started racing and it is very different. It really isn't very comparable, which will bring me to why I'm bothering to post.

---------

I am a new racer, and am relatively young... just turning 30, I am only racing because of mentors at the track... people is why I race. Now, I am competitive, built my own car... have a job that corresponds with hand-eye coordination but I had to stay engaged in my own progress to get where I'm at. I would say I am not your average DE participant, had some motivation to one day race, and I still would not be racing (this soon) if I didn't have people helping me get there.

I have found that the vast majority of Chief Instructors, Event Leads, etc. are not actively racing, many haven't ever done much more than DE. This isn't bad... but it is difficult to make the transition when there is a disconnect between racing and DE on the organizational level. (As stated NASA has limited DE groups to 'grow' thier racing)

I instruct to give back, and while I do not push people to TT or Racing, I do my best to at least de-mystify the process, and the expectations. There is a very real perception of 'inferiority' or 'I'll be a nuisance' with the DE crowd when they think of doing competition. It's not because the TT or Race crowd are mean... it's more the High School Seniors and the new freshman on campus... or whatever analogy you want to use.

Whatever you (as a racer/instructor) can do to encourage more participation is important, most of the DE crowd is just there for a good time, but some of us (me) are keeping our race intentions close and need a little help... because I'm just a freshman and you racers are so cool!