jdistefa

THIS

mglobe

Amortizing the rebuild expenditures, what is the annual cost for running a Cup Car drivetrain? (engine, transmission, diff) Assume six race weekends per year plus a minimum of a dozen other non-race track weekends?

Forget about tires, race fuel, ... right now. Just what does it cost to run the drivetrain?

Chris M.

18 track weekends? I can't wait to hear this.

mike1111

I was also under the impression that it would be near double to run a cup vs retired 996 Koni ( which my business partner has).

Keeping in mind instead of a rebuild for 996 motor, I would purchase a wrecked donor car for 6-8k

J richard

Fuel and slicks are the big delta in that comparison. Too many apples and oranges in this discussion...this is really a thread about 996 build costs so maybe this is in the wrong place, but...

The 996/gt3/cup transaxle costs is virtually the same, if you tear up a cup main shaft there’s big money in that, but for the most parts are comparable, and so are the man-hours to do the work. One argument is that the steel syncro’s and trans coolers will reduce the overall wear on the transaxle over the street box and a street car will more than likely need a LSD/cooler added to the tune of $3-5K out the door.

As far as the engine an early cup is pretty much a street GT3 with just a few mods. Yes you are spinning it faster but save the valve train the components are mostly identical. The comparison to the M96 motor is different of course, but to get an M96 to live it will take a minimum of an IMS, oil baffle and/or deep pan, accusump, additional cooling, aos etc…probably in the $2-4K range of upgrades right out of the box if I'd doesn't have any issues.

Now lets look at the rebuild costs. A factory rebuild on a cup is about $25K, what’s a factory reman 996 motor? Probably pretty close to $20K? and then you have to add the mods above? As far as durability I’ll put money on a cup motor going as long or longer than a M96 motor any day of the week. If you want to stick to Porsche recommendations on a cup 50hrs, but what’s the factory recommendations on a M96? You won’t find one. So there is no comparison, most in the know say 100 hrs if fine on a cup if you stay up on maintenance and don't zing it too bad, what does a 100hr M96 race motor look like? Parts in a box?

If you were looking at the shadetree approach, I’ve been given numbers at good shops of half the factory rebuild costs on a cup, which puts them pretty close to a rebuild of a M96 engine. Yea not a factory built/sealed motor but if im not running PDC who cares? The M96 is really not all that cheap to rebuild, most people go out and get a donor but again that's apples and oranges, I’ve seen mid mileage M96 in the $8-12K range and gt3’s in the $13-15K range, the big difference is with a M96 you still have a lottery on your hands and you need the $2-4k in longevity mods as well...

Anyway I think the idea behind a spec series is great for even racing and minimizing costs, the issue is getting into a series knowing the potential pitfalls of the platform. 944, boxsters and 996 all have fundamental fail points that sometimes make the "economicial" race option not so cheap in the long run...

mglobe

I just bought a rebuilt 3.4 for $8k from a guy with a good rep. That includes a core charge which if I decide to send him my engine will bring the cost down. I blew the engine up myself by failing to pay attention to the fact that it was overheating.

MUSSBERGER

$50k for motor/trans at those run rates. Just a guess.

dwe8922

Most of the J cars are running race fuel around here, from what I see at the pump. Tires are a big cost of the cup over a J car, though.

I have a good friend with an H 996 with only the baffle, and he has over 4 years of 6 races/yr w/ enduros, along with a few DE's.

jrgordonsenior

Yep been there, done that during the 2010 nationals. Big question, why was your reman overheating?........

onefastviking

I still see the largest expenses being all the expendables, tires, fuel,axles that time out, etc etc. Also probably the largest cost if you are married, new drapes, furniture,kitchen remodel, etc etc. I'm so glad I got divorced years ago !

onefastviking

Hose failures dropped all, or most, of the water/coolant. New gauges and warning lights will be going in this time to make sure it gets noticed immediately should it happen again.

I think your failure/overheat, at Miller in 2010 was more due to the radiators being a little clogged and the fact that the altitude there makes the air too thin thus causing easy overheats. I was having temp troubles with Jays 996 that same event but noticed it early on and changed coolant mixtures and air ducting to get it to run cooler and stay alive. I felt much better once I got the temps in the range I like.

DDun911

My H996 has a factory reman motor w five years of heavy track use, motor was 8k when I bought it now 17. Nothing was done except for oil pan. Transmission is the same as in the car when I bought it with 85k miles on it well over 100 now. I don't know why every one of these discussions turns into cup car owners justifying the cost of a cup car. My 2 cents on spec vs h I went h not only for the field depth in my area but also because though I may go threw an extra set of Hoosiers per season they are worth it.
Shocks are pss9 and I don't feel I am loosing any races not caused by the loose nut behind the wheel.

mglobe

Very good question. Hopefully we can turn this discussion back into one about 996's and the SP996 class.

mike1111

What are the differences between an H 996 or a spec other than tires and JRZ.. I assume you can use JRZ for H..

MarkM

Mike They are pretty close, but just different enough to make it impossible for me to run both. I've got motons and headers.

weight: SP996 approx 200 lbs. lighter, not insurmountable
aero: SP - can use getty or stock aero, H - stock only
exhaust: SP must use stock headers, H - open
suspension: JRZ spec package, H - open
tire: BFG R1s for SP, H- open

I've looked at the track records and there isn't enough SP996 data across all the PCA tracks yet, but the times are close. Bryan owns 7 of the 9 records and they are slightly faster than H. The driver may still be the biggest difference maker between the two classes. Although the SP996 aero package would be good on a track with fast sweepers, and the weight diff would be nice too.