Astroman

No argument from me on that one. That would have irritated me for sure.

MRW

Doug, where was that (track)? WIll you be ready by Putnam?

Veloce Raptor

Niiiice....Frank, did you expect that, or was it a total surprise? Seems like a dodgy move right there at NJMP...

flatsics

That's Frank's video. The one he could not get the link to work on.
I think it's NJMP.
My goal is to be back for Putnam.
I am taking the new car to Akron on Tues to Rollcageguy.com for the cage.

Jim Child

The Boxster should have left you room, no doubt. He must have known you were alongside him, and he tried to out brake you to maintain the position. No problem with that, but why not leave some room for you on the inside? Especially when he would have had the inside for the next corner.

SG_M3

Glad you saw it was for a laugh. But it is as informed as any post made by a dinosaur.

Veloce Raptor

That is not a nice way to refer to Sean F.

analogmike

I agree with Cory's post, he explained it well. The problem I see is that the current implementation of the PCA rules does have guys out there using the "legal chop" to their advantage.

For example, two drivers at a recent race had an incident. Driver1 is super safe, never even scratched his race car in 7 years of heavy racing with PCA. Driver2 is getting back into racing, but maybe has not raced much with PCA, has done some pro racing. Driver2 tried to pass and may have gotten chopped a bit... Driver1 did nothing unusual, he is used to people backing off in that situation. Driver2 was doing nothing unusual either and did not expect the "PCA CHOP", now he is on probation.

We are PCA, we can come up with a rule and if people like it, it will get in the book. I just don't have time to work on writing it up myself.

gums

I was shocked at the time, but worse was that I was given no room or opportunity to react, I was a passenger and I don't like that feeling. I've seen this guy do the same thing to many others and often doesn't work out too well.

Veloce Raptor

Sweet. Using the threat of a 13 as an offensive weapon! I think Jim Child's assessment is valid.

Phokaioglaukos

Go back to the original post--this is exactly what should not happen and the PCA rules do nothing to help the stewards to that conclusion. I think the PCA rule should have some reference to an obligation to give "racing room." As has been noted for NASA, I have also heard SCCA racers say that racing room is no less than 3/4 car width and it need not be a good part of the track--out in the marbles is fine--but it has to be at least 3/4 width worth of the regular racing surface (which excludes the kerbs by most definitions).

PedroNole

Hate to rain on everyone's parade here but this debate will be around long after we're all done racing... The fact is, what we do takes skill AND luck. There are MANY times that each of us pass or are being passed that we HOPE the other driver will behave like WE think he will or should. I can think of several incidents where I made passes in the last few races where I'm not sure if I would have gotten the 13 if there was contact. Not chopping mind you but certainly going deeper in a braking zone than normal... I've been hit a few times and have had some incidents where I damaged my car but didn't touch another car. That said, I've been racing for 5 years and have never gotten a 13. The fact is that **** happens when you go racing and, for the most part, 95% of us out there are reasonable and rational behind the wheel. As we all know though, there are 5% that you just absolutely have to stay away from.

Finally, as I said, **** happens when you go racing. For us to expect perfection out of ourselves and others on the track at all times is a bit ridiculous. Report the bad guys and confront them when they do ridiculous stuff. I've shown pictures of my kids to some guys after a race and told them that what they did almost orphaned them... I'm not shy about confronting anyone who I think is unsafe or just plain dangerous!

gums

It shouldn't even have to be written, this used to be a gentleman's sport. We're Club Racing, for crying out loud, give an inch! Even the dumb "one move" rule is idiotic. It only came about when stupid-*** Schumacher needed clarification for his perpetual chopping. Now you're allowed to take a guy to the wall as long as it's just "one move". I'm gonna throw a party when it bites him.

gums

And your point is well stated, Pedro, I'm with you on that.

Phokaioglaukos

Conduct that is inappropriate to the intent and spirit of the PCA Club Racing Program, jeopardizes safety or results in dangerous or damaging situations will not be tolerated. EACH DRIVER MUST GIVE EVERY OTHER DRIVER RACING ROOM, WHICH IS GENERALLY DEFINED AS SUFFICIENT SPACE ON THE RACING SURFACE THAT A DRIVER CAN MAINTAIN CONTROL OF HIS CAR IN CLOSE QUARTERS. MANEUVERS LIKELY TO HINDER OTHER DRIVERS, SUCH AS MORE THAN ONE CHANGE OF DIRECTION TO DEFEND A POSITION, DELIBERATE CROWDING OF A CAR BEYOND THE EDGE OF THE RACING SURFACE OR ANY OTHER ABNORMAL CHANGE OF DIRECTION, WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. In addition to the normal discretion of the National Stewards to deal with inappropriate and unsafe conduct during all Club Race sessions, the 13/13 rule will be in effect at all PCA Club Racing events and will be imposed for such conduct. Under this rule, any incident which results in car damage. . . .