Watching your video, it looked like a semi-****ty move to me....but a common one. Hence this thread....

 

^^^
+1,000

 

He beat you through the corner by taking advantage of your self-preservation instinct and good awareness. You probably could have shut the door, only to create contact (his fault), but ending it for both of you. His wobbly "line" after the apex demonstrates that he executed a classic dive-bomb. He was either going to get by, or create contact (depending on how YOU reacted).

I'd love to see HIS video of that encounter.

 

^^this^^

 

Exactly - to the OP, that's how guys use the 13/13 offensively

 

^^this, too^^

Take a look at SCCA GCR 6.8.1

RULES OF THE ROAD
On Course Driver Conduct
It is the responsibility of all drivers to avoid physical contact between cars on the race track.

All competitors have a right to “racing room” on the marked racing surface. “Racing room” shall be generally defined as sufficient space on the marked racing surface so as to allow a competitor to maintain control of his car in close quarters, under racing conditions.

It shall be incumbent on all drivers to preserve the right of his fellow competitors to racing room on the race track. Abrupt changes in direction so as to impede or affect the path of a car attempting to overtake or pass may be interpreted by Officials as an attempt to deprive a fellow competitor of his right to racing room.

The responsibility for the decision to pass another car and to accomplish it safely rests with the overtaking driver. The overtaken driver has the responsibility to be aware that he or she is being overtaken and not to impede the overtaking car. The overtaken driver shall not block. Any driver who fails to make use of the rear view mirror, or who appears to be blocking another car seeking a pass, may be black flagged and/or penalized.

We all have to race each other. We're supposed to be friends...

And yes, I race professionally, competitively and without contact.

 

Yep, and THAT is a chicken$hit deal...

 

I think the best thing one can do is to visit events to become familiar with the culture of the participants and stewards. To me, that is the only way. To try to paint with a broad brush SCCA, SCCA Vintage, PCA, BMWCCA, NASA, et cetera, is too hard in my opinion. It boils down to who shows up as racers and as stewards. Visit, observe, converse with "regulars," be they stewards or racers.

The debate over at Racer University went way off context, in my opinion. The articles are pretty basic and discuss topics which are challenging without very specific situational context. That is the essence of what Scott intended to convey...

I have watched the videos in the links in this thread. I can tell Mike to expect a different culture with the PRC if he drives with us next weekend at Sears Point. Hopefully I will not have to race him as he appears to be pretty skilled. In the video with the 914, my conclusion would be that the driver did not see the passing car, as he put himself in a situation where he basically gave up that corner. In the absence of other information about him and his habits (even if it were just from other observations that day), I would say that is just as likely as an intentional "chop." If he did that to me I'd ask him afterward whether he saw me, or otherwise did not expect my pass. If he wouldn't speak to me or did not give me an assertive answer one way or another... that would be data for the future.

In the other video, it is hard for me to tell how much slowing or braking is going on... it looks like a bit of a bomb, but again, if it bothered me I'd go talk with the guy. Seems like an unusual place to pass, but there is not enough context for me to come to a conclusion. That is my opinion from what I saw. The folks involved have way more information of course.

I am lucky because I race in an all-Porsche group under NASA sanction and we see each other over and over and are of like minds. We have no 13-13. We do have an excellent guidelines for racing document in our rules, which can be found in the Appendices-- download from nasaproracing or the PRC web site and I think you will find it interesting. Very different from much of the other "guidance" out there.

Ours was written when we started back in 2002 by a guy that has been racing since 1965. We have changed a lot of stuff since we started in 2002, but we have not had to change our guidelines for racing. I am sure Mike has read them many times and I am sure Scott will read them over and over before he joins us in the auto racing world of the Porsche Racing Challenge Series.

I am surprised that other Porsche Racers in other parts of the country have not emulated our model. Like cars, and like minds, and frequent social contact in the paddock.

 

Your first point: agree 1000%

Your second point: I can't comment on the article or context, nor speak for Scott. But I read his comments here as making the valid point that all passes are not the same, and some context (I.E., venue, sanctioning body, pro versus club, etc.) is relevant. Which is why this thread was started in the first place.

 

PCA events are "destination events." What I mean is that they are not part of a series in many/most cases and I think folks often come from long distances... at least that has been my very limited experience. Sure, some events are annual, like Sebring and Fontana I believe, but this is very different from a situation where a group of racers see 95% of the same folks in a given season, let alone across a number of years. I suspect some of this exists in PCA, but it just isn't the same as what we do out here in our little group. most of us started with the PCA program, and we realized that we could have more of a series if we made a relationship with a sanctioning body.

Like many things, despite the power of the internet, it is often best to check out things like the Op's questions by getting as much local context as possible/reasonable. I hope that he does and comes to comfortable conclusions one way or the other.

 

How is that a dive bomb?

This thread started out well, but honestly the PCA rules don't lend themselves to racing. The guy had it right, its a cocktail party that during which a couple of gentlemen decided to drive around a track together.

 

He could and should have given you a couple extra feet on the inside. Looks like he actually tried to give some room, either that or he can't hit an apex. Given that his car is much lighter, he should have been able to maintain position on the outside anyway. I often wonder in situations like this if its an intentional chop, or just a lack of track/spacial awareness.


I don't agree this was a dive bomb. It was a faster class car that passed you by braking later as you followed the Boxster. And since the Boxster stayed wide, he got both of you in one spot. If that had been one of the GTC1 crowd, I doubt you would have thought anything of it.

 

Sheesh. The course on RacerU was about the mechanics of the basic outbraking pass. It was not about psychology or what happens when the other car defends. It is the starting point for building real world discussions about passing situations and racecraft.

The points about differences between amateur and pro were directed at the mechanics, not how aggressive one group is vs. the other. Nor was it about the rules as to what constitutes 'owning the corner'. There is certianly a difference between how aggressive a pass is (PCA vs. SCCA Nationals vs. pro) but the mechanics to try to make it work are the same for the outbraking pass.

If you want to see the course and discussion, both are in the free area of RacerU for new users. Comments were offered by a group that represents decades of wheel-to-wheel racing experience, thousands of race starts, ten thousand+ race laps, tens of thousands of near-race laps (qualifying and practice), reaching across virtually every amateur group around and many pro venues. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

 

Disagree. There was some fantastic racing, in all classes, at Watkins Glen last weekend.

 

Sounds like the folks here as well.