ASK THE COACH
#588
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#589
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Deep Downtown Carrier, OK
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It's a bad habit for 99% of us for technical driving reasons (noted above) as well as mechanical ones.
On subject; regarding both downshifting and trail braking, one extremely illuminating thing a person can do would be to get permission to spend a few sessions in different corner stations. Doing so with a coach can provide input from an up-close perspective that provides a real look at so very many things in real time - some good, much bad and all worthwhile.
#590
Rennlist Member
I will have to think on and apply your answer to the trail braking topic. I will observe and try to fine tune this in my own behavior during the coming weekend. Thanks.
#591
Former Vendor
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
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Most Pros are very easy on transmissions. The learning process can cause gearbox damage, but this decreases with proficiency.
Going through multiple gears is definitely uncomfortable at first, but how much of track driving was NOT uncomfortable at first?
Going through multiple gears is definitely uncomfortable at first, but how much of track driving was NOT uncomfortable at first?
Last edited by Adam@Autometrics; 10-27-2011 at 11:16 AM.
#593
I will only offer my own opinions, others here may disagree vehemently. I am not a fan of skip shifting, and never do it, in any car. I like to know what gear I am in, and the progression down through the gears helps me avoid overbraking, and gives me a better cadence for the braking sequence w/o unsettling the car. Plus, if something goes wrong (i.e., tire blowout) that causes me to for example accidentally slip my foot off the clutch prematurely, I am in the proper gear for that speed, not 2 gears lower, and don't really risk locking the drive wheels, over-revving the motor, and spinning.
So assuming you did mean 2 gears lower, that means that your interpretation of skip shifting (that you're not a fan of) is that one downshifts to the exit gear shortly after commencing braking, and leaves the clutch depressed until shortly before accelerating.
Is that your interpretation?
#594
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Thread Starter
When I first read "2 gears lower" I thought that you MUST have meant "2 hears higher". However, your descriptions of the bad stuff that can happen if your foot slips off the clutch would appear to match being 2 gears lower than the correct gear for the car's speed at that instant.
So assuming you did mean 2 gears lower, that means that your interpretation of skip shifting (that you're not a fan of) is that one downshifts to the exit gear shortly after commencing braking, and leaves the clutch depressed until shortly before accelerating.
Is that your interpretation?
So assuming you did mean 2 gears lower, that means that your interpretation of skip shifting (that you're not a fan of) is that one downshifts to the exit gear shortly after commencing braking, and leaves the clutch depressed until shortly before accelerating.
Is that your interpretation?
#595
Rennlist Member
I'm thinking that Dave prefers to be working all three pedals at the same time in different phases to each other. Single gear changes to match engine RPM as needed even if that means dropping two gears, which preferably would be done one gear at a time.
Correct Dave ? ? ?
Correct Dave ? ? ?
#596
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm thinking that Dave prefers to be working all three pedals at the same time in different phases to each other. Single gear changes to match engine RPM as needed even if that means dropping two gears, which preferably would be done one gear at a time.
Correct Dave ? ? ?
Correct Dave ? ? ?
Bottom line: **** happens in a car at high speeds, especially in racing. I have been surprised in a car, and didn't like it, so now I do everything I can behind the whheel to avoid surprises. Shifting down through each gear is just one way to avoid surprises.
#598
Obviously, there's more than one way to downshift more than one gear at a time.
That being said, they way in your interpretation is the most abominable I can think of.
It is very harsh on either synchros or dog clutches, and it could easily result in revving the clutch center plate twice as fast as the engine's own red line. Clutches have their own rev limits and can come apart if over revved.
If there is a proper way to downshift more than one gear at a time, then it would be to simple miss out all intermediate shifts except the one to the desired corner exit gear, and to delay that one until the clutch can be lifted immediately after the gear lever is in the correct gear. This is no harder on synchros than any other downshift, carries no extra penalties for foot slipping off clutch than any other downshift and doesn't rev the clutch plate faster than the engine.
In any downshift I consider it important that the clutch is not pressed any longer than may be required to effect a good quality gearchange, so I strongly disapprove of driving with the clutch depressed (as would be happening in Dave's interpretation).
I also consider it good practice that the car always be in the "correct" gear at all times, so that a suitable amount of drive torque can be applied in the event of unforseen circumstances.
So I consider a good implementation of skip shifting to be merely less than desirable, but I do consider your interpretation of it to be an abominably bad practice.
#599
Rennlist Member
One thing I learned from VR (and thought it odd at the time) is downshifting through multiple gears (like at the end of the back straight at Mid Ohio from 5th to 3rd - and even 2nd sometimes) and blipping with each change but not letting out the clutch with each change. Never had considered it, but you're always in the right gear with matched revs if something happens and there's really no reason to let the clutch out each time anyway - it's just wasted motion and time. Still, the whole process seems to keep me in a rhythm. It was very helpful to me.
#600
Rennlist Member